<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Detroit: Do the Collapse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:39:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-5305</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-5305</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m confused. You advocate spending 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars (because that&#039;s what it would realistically cost) to help 100s of thousands, if not millions of people abandon 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars worth of already built infrastructure and physical structures in Michigan (homes, businesses, workplaces) so they can move to other areas of the country where 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars will have to be spent to accommodate them (new homes, businesses, water lines, electrical lines, etc)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Admittedly, Michigan needs to (and is, slowly) restructure itself. But if you&#039;re going to spend that much money, it seems that it would be better spent giving tax breaks to new businesses to move to Michigan. And if people say that government shouldn&#039;t be picking winners and losers, make the tax break available to ANY company moving to Michigan, as long as they located in &quot;brownfield&quot; areas instead of &quot;greenfields&quot;. It would be cheaper and more &quot;green&quot; in the long run. And look at the BILLIONS in tax breaks given to the auto transplants to build their factories in the South. Why would this be any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m confused. You advocate spending 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars (because that&#39;s what it would realistically cost) to help 100s of thousands, if not millions of people abandon 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars worth of already built infrastructure and physical structures in Michigan (homes, businesses, workplaces) so they can move to other areas of the country where 10s if not hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars will have to be spent to accommodate them (new homes, businesses, water lines, electrical lines, etc)?</p>
<p>Admittedly, Michigan needs to (and is, slowly) restructure itself. But if you&#39;re going to spend that much money, it seems that it would be better spent giving tax breaks to new businesses to move to Michigan. And if people say that government shouldn&#39;t be picking winners and losers, make the tax break available to ANY company moving to Michigan, as long as they located in &quot;brownfield&quot; areas instead of &quot;greenfields&quot;. It would be cheaper and more &quot;green&quot; in the long run. And look at the BILLIONS in tax breaks given to the auto transplants to build their factories in the South. Why would this be any different?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: drug rehab center</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2681</link>
		<dc:creator>drug rehab center</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2681</guid>
		<description>The state of Detroit will eventually find a way on how to fund their programs in solving crime related problems.  Funds will be given to them in the future when the financial crisis ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The state of Detroit will eventually find a way on how to fund their programs in solving crime related problems.  Funds will be given to them in the future when the financial crisis ends.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Global City Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2521</link>
		<dc:creator>Global City Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2521</guid>
		<description>Yes, Water indeed. And a whole lot more.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;THere is much to say about Detroit&#039;s problems.  Many of which are problems in many cities of the US and globally.  Remember that there are at least 350 cities shrinking around the world - and many of them have MUCH less going for them than Detroit.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Regional Detroit is actually around 5.4 Million people. Thats the size of Denmark, Greater Toronto and  bigger than about 40 States in the US. THis is an advantage - it has its own economy. Yes, it is strangled by the auto-industry, but this restructuring is welcomed by many.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The AUTO industry is LONG overdue for the cleansing.  Bring it on - but there are many other industries and economic activities in Detroit.  It has huge, established Cultural, educational, health care, &lt;br/&gt;technological and engineering R&amp;D systems in place.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The City is perfectly positioned for the future, when location,location, location is all about  proximity to other cities, water, and &quot;quality&quot; built PLACES of which Detroit has plenty - it is the oldest city in the Midwest, 1701.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The bones are good, inefficiently being used, and ready for rebirth. This is the opposite of a &quot;growing&quot;place like Phoenix,which is set-up for HUGE problems starting now. And it has NO good bone, no quality environment and no character - an element that is of significant value to the next boomers, the &quot;Millenials&quot;. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Let the hold of the Auto industry loosen and let the use of the City&#039;s infrastructure, location come into a fruitful reality.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Go Detroit!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Water indeed. And a whole lot more.</p>
<p>THere is much to say about Detroit&#39;s problems.  Many of which are problems in many cities of the US and globally.  Remember that there are at least 350 cities shrinking around the world &#8211; and many of them have MUCH less going for them than Detroit.  </p>
<p>Regional Detroit is actually around 5.4 Million people. Thats the size of Denmark, Greater Toronto and  bigger than about 40 States in the US. THis is an advantage &#8211; it has its own economy. Yes, it is strangled by the auto-industry, but this restructuring is welcomed by many.</p>
<p>The AUTO industry is LONG overdue for the cleansing.  Bring it on &#8211; but there are many other industries and economic activities in Detroit.  It has huge, established Cultural, educational, health care, <br />technological and engineering R&amp;D systems in place.  </p>
<p>The City is perfectly positioned for the future, when location,location, location is all about  proximity to other cities, water, and &quot;quality&quot; built PLACES of which Detroit has plenty &#8211; it is the oldest city in the Midwest, 1701.  </p>
<p>The bones are good, inefficiently being used, and ready for rebirth. This is the opposite of a &quot;growing&quot;place like Phoenix,which is set-up for HUGE problems starting now. And it has NO good bone, no quality environment and no character &#8211; an element that is of significant value to the next boomers, the &quot;Millenials&quot;. </p>
<p>Let the hold of the Auto industry loosen and let the use of the City&#39;s infrastructure, location come into a fruitful reality.  </p>
<p>Go Detroit!!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2390</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2390</guid>
		<description>Water. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Moving people out of Michigan and within the U.S. most of the time involves moving them away from an abundance of fresh water to locations (the SW or SE US) lacking water resources. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Jack Daniels in Tennessee had to stop production due to water shortages in that state and similar shortages occur every Summer throughout the Southeast U.S. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Water, not fossil fuels, will be the major determinant of economic reality over the next generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Water. </p>
<p>Moving people out of Michigan and within the U.S. most of the time involves moving them away from an abundance of fresh water to locations (the SW or SE US) lacking water resources. </p>
<p>Jack Daniels in Tennessee had to stop production due to water shortages in that state and similar shortages occur every Summer throughout the Southeast U.S. </p>
<p>Water, not fossil fuels, will be the major determinant of economic reality over the next generation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2347</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do we doubt for a minute that the Canadians would make Michigan a productive and prosperous province?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do. Ontario has one productive and prosperous part - Greater Toronto - surrounded by sketchy industrial slums, like Hamilton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do we doubt for a minute that the Canadians would make Michigan a productive and prosperous province?</i></p>
<p>I do. Ontario has one productive and prosperous part &#8211; Greater Toronto &#8211; surrounded by sketchy industrial slums, like Hamilton.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thundermutt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>thundermutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>I wrote &quot;Marxian&quot;, not &quot;Marxist&quot;.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The former is an economic term  and the latter is a political label.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Or at least it was so when I studied economics in the last century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote &#8220;Marxian&#8221;, not &#8220;Marxist&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The former is an economic term  and the latter is a political label.</p>
<p>Or at least it was so when I studied economics in the last century.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>Why, &lt;i&gt;of course&lt;/i&gt; thinking that police and firemen protect property is totally Marxian.  That explains why police and fire departments are supported by property taxes, even though the largest property owners are a distinct minority and usually don&#039;t even live in the district being protected.  You see, they&#039;re materialists, and materialists are Marxists, and that&#039;s why fire engines are red- they&#039;re always &lt;i&gt;Russian&lt;/i&gt; around!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why, <i>of course</i> thinking that police and firemen protect property is totally Marxian.  That explains why police and fire departments are supported by property taxes, even though the largest property owners are a distinct minority and usually don&#8217;t even live in the district being protected.  You see, they&#8217;re materialists, and materialists are Marxists, and that&#8217;s why fire engines are red- they&#8217;re always <i>Russian</i> around!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thundermutt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>thundermutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>Catwoman, your analysis is too Marxian.  It is only recently that cars and houses started calling 911 on behalf of their owners.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If crime against property happens and no one reports it, no police respond.  If a detached garage is on fire and no other structure is threatened, the firefighters let it burn.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I stand by the statement that public-safety services exist to protect people, streets and sidewalks and buslines exist to serve people, and trash trucks run routes to serve people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catwoman, your analysis is too Marxian.  It is only recently that cars and houses started calling 911 on behalf of their owners.</p>
<p>If crime against property happens and no one reports it, no police respond.  If a detached garage is on fire and no other structure is threatened, the firefighters let it burn.</p>
<p>I stand by the statement that public-safety services exist to protect people, streets and sidewalks and buslines exist to serve people, and trash trucks run routes to serve people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2306</guid>
		<description>Oh pulleeze.  It&#039;s not exactly a big secret that the major reason for police and fire departments is to protect property.  As for trash pickup and other utilities, it would certainly be amazing if Detroit didn&#039;t do what every other city does- bill people, and not pick up the trash if they don&#039;t pay.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for streets, they don&#039;t wear out if you don&#039;t run trucks and buses on them, and I&#039;m pretty sure Detroit isn&#039;t maintaining the streets around all those vacant lots you can see in the aerial photographs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Take the people out of the picture and you still have police and fire protecting the property.  Take the stores and businesses out of the picture and you get someplace like where I live- lots of people, but no police.  Cities, of course, don&#039;t work very well without people- which in itself ought to tell you something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh pulleeze.  It&#8217;s not exactly a big secret that the major reason for police and fire departments is to protect property.  As for trash pickup and other utilities, it would certainly be amazing if Detroit didn&#8217;t do what every other city does- bill people, and not pick up the trash if they don&#8217;t pay.</p>
<p>As for streets, they don&#8217;t wear out if you don&#8217;t run trucks and buses on them, and I&#8217;m pretty sure Detroit isn&#8217;t maintaining the streets around all those vacant lots you can see in the aerial photographs.</p>
<p>Take the people out of the picture and you still have police and fire protecting the property.  Take the stores and businesses out of the picture and you get someplace like where I live- lots of people, but no police.  Cities, of course, don&#8217;t work very well without people- which in itself ought to tell you something.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thundermutt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-2305</link>
		<dc:creator>thundermutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2008/11/23/detroit-do-the-collapse/#comment-2305</guid>
		<description>catowner, you&#039;ve merely replaced one laissez-faire fantasy with another (&quot;municipal governments service property&quot;).  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The biggest municipal costs ARE people related: police/criminal justice, streets and trash.  All those are directly related to people, not to property.  No criminals, no victims...no police.  No people living in houses...no trash service.  No one driving to work...no street maintenance costs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Shrinkage of the &quot;urban services boundary&quot; most assuredly would reduce city costs in the aggregate, for Detroit or for any city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>catowner, you&#8217;ve merely replaced one laissez-faire fantasy with another (&#8220;municipal governments service property&#8221;).  </p>
<p>The biggest municipal costs ARE people related: police/criminal justice, streets and trash.  All those are directly related to people, not to property.  No criminals, no victims&#8230;no police.  No people living in houses&#8230;no trash service.  No one driving to work&#8230;no street maintenance costs.</p>
<p>Shrinkage of the &#8220;urban services boundary&#8221; most assuredly would reduce city costs in the aggregate, for Detroit or for any city.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
