<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Detroit: Out-Migration Devastates Michigan (and the Midwest)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:28:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Michael Pereckas</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3231</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pereckas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3231</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been hearing the &#039;brain drain&#039; thing most of my life but it never really feels like I&#039;m actually going very far away.  I went &#039;away&#039; to high school, but in a different suburb of the same city.  I guess that&#039;s &#039;brain drain&#039; if you manage one suburb&#039;s school district, but it&#039;s not like I really went &lt;i&gt;away&lt;/i&gt;.  Then I went to college quite a bit farther away, but in the state, so that counts as staying home, I suppose.  I looked for work there when I graduated, but couldn&#039;t find anything that had any connection to the education I&#039;d just spent all that time and money on.  Eventually I moved to a city a bit north of where I&#039;d started from, closer to my old home than the college was, but on the other side of the state line, so there I am, &#039;draining away.&#039;  But it&#039;s not like I moved across the sea and learned a new language.  It&#039;s just the neighboring big(ish) city.  Not only can you not blame the Michigan graduates for moving to where they could find work, but moving 225 miles away to Chicago doesn&#039;t even count as moving away to them, it&#039;s only a drain in terms of the arbitrary boundary lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been hearing the &#8216;brain drain&#8217; thing most of my life but it never really feels like I&#8217;m actually going very far away.  I went &#8216;away&#8217; to high school, but in a different suburb of the same city.  I guess that&#8217;s &#8216;brain drain&#8217; if you manage one suburb&#8217;s school district, but it&#8217;s not like I really went <i>away</i>.  Then I went to college quite a bit farther away, but in the state, so that counts as staying home, I suppose.  I looked for work there when I graduated, but couldn&#8217;t find anything that had any connection to the education I&#8217;d just spent all that time and money on.  Eventually I moved to a city a bit north of where I&#8217;d started from, closer to my old home than the college was, but on the other side of the state line, so there I am, &#8216;draining away.&#8217;  But it&#8217;s not like I moved across the sea and learned a new language.  It&#8217;s just the neighboring big(ish) city.  Not only can you not blame the Michigan graduates for moving to where they could find work, but moving 225 miles away to Chicago doesn&#8217;t even count as moving away to them, it&#8217;s only a drain in terms of the arbitrary boundary lines.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3165</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 04:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3165</guid>
		<description>Obama won Hamilton County 53-46. He also won Salt Lake County, by 300 votes. The only metro areas in the top 50 where Obama didn&#039;t win the central county are Phoenix, Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, and Greenville.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama won Hamilton County 53-46. He also won Salt Lake County, by 300 votes. The only metro areas in the top 50 where Obama didn&#8217;t win the central county are Phoenix, Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, and Greenville.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3155</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3155</guid>
		<description>Bush also won Hamilton county which is amazing to win the core city county of a metro - at least outside of the South or place like Utah perhaps.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t know which candidate won that county last fall though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush also won Hamilton county which is amazing to win the core city county of a metro &#8211; at least outside of the South or place like Utah perhaps.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know which candidate won that county last fall though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3153</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3153</guid>
		<description>Alon, that is a very interesting fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon, that is a very interesting fact.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3152</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3152</guid>
		<description>Random fact:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;McCain won the Cincinnati CSA with 57% of the two party vote, which is a higher margin than the one he won Phoenix by. Meanwhile, Obama won the Cleveland CSA 61-39 and the Indy and Columbus CSAs 52-48.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Random fact:</p>
<p>McCain won the Cincinnati CSA with 57% of the two party vote, which is a higher margin than the one he won Phoenix by. Meanwhile, Obama won the Cleveland CSA 61-39 and the Indy and Columbus CSAs 52-48.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3148</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3148</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t really offended, just annoyed because it is such a common trope. Cincinnati has long had a similar problem with its relationship to Ohio - and FWIW, Northern Kentucky doesn&#039;t really fit in with the rest of the state either. The situation at NKU is probably the best evidence. I agree about Kentucky but it a retarding factor we have to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t really offended, just annoyed because it is such a common trope. Cincinnati has long had a similar problem with its relationship to Ohio &#8211; and FWIW, Northern Kentucky doesn&#8217;t really fit in with the rest of the state either. The situation at NKU is probably the best evidence. I agree about Kentucky but it a retarding factor we have to consider.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CARR</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3126</link>
		<dc:creator>CARR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3126</guid>
		<description>David,&lt;br/&gt;I didn&#039;t mean to offend you with the Cincinnati is conservative meme, but that is the impression I have gotten from the city on my numerous visits. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do agree with you about the weather comment. The weather tends to be much milder in the Ohio valley. However, I really don&#039;t see Kentucky regaining any of its western heritage. Kentucky is content on being a southern state. Louisville is a different story. The city holds on to some of its western values, but it also holds onto its southern  and midwestern heritage just as much. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Louisville has somewhat of an identity crisis. We are far enough south to almost be a southern city, but we are also far enough north to almost be a true midwestern city. We are also far enough west (from a historical standpoint) that we have some of those values as well.  Hence our identity crisis. We are still trying to figure that part out.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It also doesn&#039;t help that Louisville and the state of Kentucky are usually at odds. Louisville is in Kentucky, but it doesn&#039;t feel like Kentucky. It&#039;s almost like Louisville is it&#039;s own state within a state.  As you can imagine this leads to a lot of conflict. But I digress.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I also agree that for the most part most of the midwestern cities are just trading people. Some just do a better job of it than others. The trick is getting people form outside the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />I didn&#8217;t mean to offend you with the Cincinnati is conservative meme, but that is the impression I have gotten from the city on my numerous visits. </p>
<p>I do agree with you about the weather comment. The weather tends to be much milder in the Ohio valley. However, I really don&#8217;t see Kentucky regaining any of its western heritage. Kentucky is content on being a southern state. Louisville is a different story. The city holds on to some of its western values, but it also holds onto its southern  and midwestern heritage just as much. </p>
<p>Louisville has somewhat of an identity crisis. We are far enough south to almost be a southern city, but we are also far enough north to almost be a true midwestern city. We are also far enough west (from a historical standpoint) that we have some of those values as well.  Hence our identity crisis. We are still trying to figure that part out.</p>
<p>It also doesn&#8217;t help that Louisville and the state of Kentucky are usually at odds. Louisville is in Kentucky, but it doesn&#8217;t feel like Kentucky. It&#8217;s almost like Louisville is it&#8217;s own state within a state.  As you can imagine this leads to a lot of conflict. But I digress.</p>
<p>I also agree that for the most part most of the midwestern cities are just trading people. Some just do a better job of it than others. The trick is getting people form outside the region.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thundermutt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3120</link>
		<dc:creator>thundermutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3120</guid>
		<description>Couldn&#039;t resist this.  Greg Ballard is mayor of Indianapolis:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(from WIBC.com)&lt;br/&gt;Ballard Robbed in Detroit &lt;br/&gt;By Amber Stearns &lt;br/&gt;4/6/2009 &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mayor Greg Ballard was not hurt, but his cell phone was stolen Saturday while he was in Detroit for the NCAA Final Four.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The mayor was walking back to his hotel when he saw a man who looked like he was having a seizure.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ballard walked over to help him and police say he was surrounded by three or four others who took his phone. The man faking the seizure then jumped up and ran off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t resist this.  Greg Ballard is mayor of Indianapolis:</p>
<p>(from WIBC.com)<br />Ballard Robbed in Detroit <br />By Amber Stearns <br />4/6/2009 </p>
<p>Mayor Greg Ballard was not hurt, but his cell phone was stolen Saturday while he was in Detroit for the NCAA Final Four.</p>
<p>The mayor was walking back to his hotel when he saw a man who looked like he was having a seizure.</p>
<p>Ballard walked over to help him and police say he was surrounded by three or four others who took his phone. The man faking the seizure then jumped up and ran off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3119</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3119</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Jim: to at least some extent, the outmigration from LA and the Bay Area is overstated. Both have very tightly drawn metro area boundaries, and both have a lot of exurbs further inland: LA has the Inland Empire, the Bay Area Stockton, Modesto, and Merced. What happened in both areas earlier this decade is that very high housing prices pushed people into the exurbs.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Alon: I&#039;m not so sure the out-migration is overstated. The exodus to states such as Washington, Nevada, and Colorado is well documented. I know, personally, many Bay Area refugees along the Front Range of CO. Many of them still telecommute and prefer the what they term a better quality of life than what they had in CA.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nonetheless, you make a good point about those who simply leave the MSA but remain instate. Most relocation is &quot;local&quot;. That&#039;s true for the Rust Belt, as well. Even the best apples typically don&#039;t fall far from the tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Jim: to at least some extent, the outmigration from LA and the Bay Area is overstated. Both have very tightly drawn metro area boundaries, and both have a lot of exurbs further inland: LA has the Inland Empire, the Bay Area Stockton, Modesto, and Merced. What happened in both areas earlier this decade is that very high housing prices pushed people into the exurbs.</i></p>
<p>Alon: I&#8217;m not so sure the out-migration is overstated. The exodus to states such as Washington, Nevada, and Colorado is well documented. I know, personally, many Bay Area refugees along the Front Range of CO. Many of them still telecommute and prefer the what they term a better quality of life than what they had in CA.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, you make a good point about those who simply leave the MSA but remain instate. Most relocation is &#8220;local&#8221;. That&#8217;s true for the Rust Belt, as well. Even the best apples typically don&#8217;t fall far from the tree.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pete-rock</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/comment-page-1/#comment-3118</link>
		<dc:creator>pete-rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/04/03/detroit-out-migration-devastates-michigan-and-the-midwest/#comment-3118</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m new to this blog, and I find the articles and comments fascinating.  I&#039;m glad to see these kinds of discussions happening here.  I&#039;m a native Detroiter who moved in the &#039;80s, spent seven years in Indiana, and I&#039;ve lived in the Chicago area for the last 20 years.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A lot of the ideas listed here are right on -- yes, the Midwest does have an image problem, and it does have a product problem.  I believe it also has a bit of a culture problem that underlies the first two points.  From what I&#039;ve read on this blog so far, the culture problem has been fairly well described -- a desire to restore our places to &quot;the way things were,&quot; an undervaluation of education, a stubbornness that prevents regional or local cooperation and even some rigidity toward improving racial relations.  I&#039;ve always thought that once the culture problems are resolved, the product problem is much easier to fix and we&#039;re better equipped to create a new image.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Here&#039;s a question that might be off-the-wall, but I think it&#039;s legit: what role could global climate change have in reversing Midwest out-migration?  Specifically, if Vegas, Phoenix, LA, and even Atlanta and Charlotte, run out of water, will people relocate to the Rust Belt?  People gotta drink water, and Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee have plenty of it.  Even Indy, Columbus, Cinti and Minny (compared to the Sun Belt).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And one last point.  I think Detroit missed a HUGE opportunity in the early &#039;70s that would&#039;ve made the economic restructuring there much easier to deal with.  When Motown was still there, Detroit could&#039;ve turned itself into an R&amp;B version of Nashville -- a haven for artists, musicians, sound engineers, producers and studio execs who would create not just a Motown sound but a new R&amp;B sound.  Detroit could&#039;ve had its version of Nashville&#039;s Music Row.  In fact, it still could -- Detroit is still a place where there is creativity in music genres like hip-hop and techno/electronica.  What about a SXSW-type festival in Detroit?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Other cities have similar &quot;brands&quot; to exploit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m new to this blog, and I find the articles and comments fascinating.  I&#39;m glad to see these kinds of discussions happening here.  I&#39;m a native Detroiter who moved in the &#39;80s, spent seven years in Indiana, and I&#39;ve lived in the Chicago area for the last 20 years.</p>
<p>A lot of the ideas listed here are right on &#8212; yes, the Midwest does have an image problem, and it does have a product problem.  I believe it also has a bit of a culture problem that underlies the first two points.  From what I&#39;ve read on this blog so far, the culture problem has been fairly well described &#8212; a desire to restore our places to &quot;the way things were,&quot; an undervaluation of education, a stubbornness that prevents regional or local cooperation and even some rigidity toward improving racial relations.  I&#39;ve always thought that once the culture problems are resolved, the product problem is much easier to fix and we&#39;re better equipped to create a new image.</p>
<p>Here&#39;s a question that might be off-the-wall, but I think it&#39;s legit: what role could global climate change have in reversing Midwest out-migration?  Specifically, if Vegas, Phoenix, LA, and even Atlanta and Charlotte, run out of water, will people relocate to the Rust Belt?  People gotta drink water, and Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee have plenty of it.  Even Indy, Columbus, Cinti and Minny (compared to the Sun Belt).</p>
<p>And one last point.  I think Detroit missed a HUGE opportunity in the early &#39;70s that would&#39;ve made the economic restructuring there much easier to deal with.  When Motown was still there, Detroit could&#39;ve turned itself into an R&amp;B version of Nashville &#8212; a haven for artists, musicians, sound engineers, producers and studio execs who would create not just a Motown sound but a new R&amp;B sound.  Detroit could&#39;ve had its version of Nashville&#39;s Music Row.  In fact, it still could &#8212; Detroit is still a place where there is creativity in music genres like hip-hop and techno/electronica.  What about a SXSW-type festival in Detroit?</p>
<p>Other cities have similar &quot;brands&quot; to exploit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

