Comments on: The Rise of the New Grass Roots – Part 1: The Phenomenon http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/ Passionate About Cities Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:28:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: SBC http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3731 SBC Wed, 27 May 2009 22:51:31 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3731 Interesting post. New technological platforms are making communication easier. In a recent post I make the point that social media promotes social justice. Please see...........<br /><br />http://thegreenmarket.blogspot.com/2009/05/social-media-and-sustainability.html<br /><br />THE GREEN MARKET<br />Providing Sustainable Information and Resources to the Small Business Community Interesting post. New technological platforms are making communication easier. In a recent post I make the point that social media promotes social justice. Please see………..

http://thegreenmarket.blogspot.com/2009/05/social-media-and-sustainability.html

THE GREEN MARKET
Providing Sustainable Information and Resources to the Small Business Community

]]> By: The Urbanophile http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3584 The Urbanophile Sun, 17 May 2009 21:44:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3584 Pat, thanks for the comment and your perspectives on Smaller Indiana. I do think it can be a powerful economic development force for the region.<br /><br />You are also onto something I think with Indy-sized cities being in a sweet spot for this type of network. Also, the face that Indy can tap into a statewide population - it is Smaller Indiana afterall - means it can play bigger when it needs to but be smaller when that's an advantage too. Pat, thanks for the comment and your perspectives on Smaller Indiana. I do think it can be a powerful economic development force for the region.

You are also onto something I think with Indy-sized cities being in a sweet spot for this type of network. Also, the face that Indy can tap into a statewide population – it is Smaller Indiana afterall – means it can play bigger when it needs to but be smaller when that’s an advantage too.

]]> By: Pat http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3576 Pat Sat, 16 May 2009 13:16:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3576 I agree with much of your post, but I'd also like to point out that Smaller Indiana didn't start out as a book club. There was a book club, I invited its members to join SI, and this group heavily influence the first 500 member. The name Smaller Indiana was inspired by a concept, Small World Aristocratic Networks, which you've essentially defined in your description of Smaller IN. Clusters of highly connected individuals connected to other cluster through "loose ties." This pattern of network organization can be found in many seeminly random systems including the way Web pages link, computers on the Internet...biological systems at the cellular level, ecosystems...even (apparently) the way words are used in a language system. Before founding SI I theorized that people would organize around this same "natural" order if the connective platform were available. Thanks to NING, I got a chance to test it. My original hope for SI was that it would be a plank in the platform of economic development, which needs to include commercial and cultural activity as well as connectivty between people (and their ideas). From there, chaos takes over and you get things like small biz netwokring groups using SI...which is fine and good but the central activity on SI. In my view SI is still in its Alpha phase, but the model shows promise. Interestingly, folks often ask if I plan to syndicate this concept to other cities. I will admit that sounds like a neat biz, but I have doubts that a site such as SI would take root in other cities...especially the bigger cities. I think Indy has the right mix of smallish size, community pride, under-served creative class, and midwestern friendliness...not saying other cities couldn't spawn an online community like this, but I do think that we have a special mix of attributes here in Indy that create fertile ground. I agree with much of your post, but I’d also like to point out that Smaller Indiana didn’t start out as a book club. There was a book club, I invited its members to join SI, and this group heavily influence the first 500 member. The name Smaller Indiana was inspired by a concept, Small World Aristocratic Networks, which you’ve essentially defined in your description of Smaller IN. Clusters of highly connected individuals connected to other cluster through “loose ties.” This pattern of network organization can be found in many seeminly random systems including the way Web pages link, computers on the Internet…biological systems at the cellular level, ecosystems…even (apparently) the way words are used in a language system. Before founding SI I theorized that people would organize around this same “natural” order if the connective platform were available. Thanks to NING, I got a chance to test it. My original hope for SI was that it would be a plank in the platform of economic development, which needs to include commercial and cultural activity as well as connectivty between people (and their ideas). From there, chaos takes over and you get things like small biz netwokring groups using SI…which is fine and good but the central activity on SI. In my view SI is still in its Alpha phase, but the model shows promise. Interestingly, folks often ask if I plan to syndicate this concept to other cities. I will admit that sounds like a neat biz, but I have doubts that a site such as SI would take root in other cities…especially the bigger cities. I think Indy has the right mix of smallish size, community pride, under-served creative class, and midwestern friendliness…not saying other cities couldn’t spawn an online community like this, but I do think that we have a special mix of attributes here in Indy that create fertile ground.

]]> By: The Urbanophile http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3554 The Urbanophile Thu, 14 May 2009 02:01:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3554 Jeffery, your blog is awesome, btw. Anyone who doesn't read Daytonology, should. Lots of great data, and especially historical development studies, that have interesting lessons for us all.<br /><br />But you are working a more specialized area in a tertiary market. I've long said that you're wasted on a city like Dayton. Mayor Jer should figure out a way to put you on the payroll back in the 'Ville.<br /><br />So there isn't a lot of interaction on your blog. But I know that blogs can move markets, so to speak. The political blogs in Indy are widely read, and even if the commenter base isn't always the greatest, a lot of the research is recycled by the mainstream press and ends up having a bigger impact.<br /><br />Urban Ohio is a great site though. Jeffery, your blog is awesome, btw. Anyone who doesn’t read Daytonology, should. Lots of great data, and especially historical development studies, that have interesting lessons for us all.

But you are working a more specialized area in a tertiary market. I’ve long said that you’re wasted on a city like Dayton. Mayor Jer should figure out a way to put you on the payroll back in the ‘Ville.

So there isn’t a lot of interaction on your blog. But I know that blogs can move markets, so to speak. The political blogs in Indy are widely read, and even if the commenter base isn’t always the greatest, a lot of the research is recycled by the mainstream press and ends up having a bigger impact.

Urban Ohio is a great site though.

]]> By: Jefferey http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3553 Jefferey Thu, 14 May 2009 01:51:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3553 My exprience with blogging on Dayton is that it's pretty pointless. <br /><br />I prefer the forum format, like at Urban Ohio, where there is actually some communication between participants. My exprience with blogging on Dayton is that it’s pretty pointless.

I prefer the forum format, like at Urban Ohio, where there is actually some communication between participants.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3535 Alon Levy Mon, 11 May 2009 18:22:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3535 Thundermutt: anecdotally, I can tell you that on message boards I meet far more diverse people than anywhere else. My main social milieu revolves around the Columbia math department, which isn't very diverse - everyone's a member of the transnational upper middle class, and even then there's severe segregation between whites and Asians (there are no black grads; the only Hispanic grad is from Spain and has a whiter skin than anyone else). People are geeky to varying degrees, but that's not real diversity. Blogs for that matter are the same - pretty much everyone comes from the same educated upper middle class, or has adopted its mannerisms.<br /><br />Conversely, forums, which are oriented around a random common interest, like the New York City subway or fantasy fan fiction or just having randomly strolled into the forum, are an opportunity to meet people who actually are different. Sometimes it leads to friction; usually it doesn't, unless someone's trying to start a flamewar. Thundermutt: anecdotally, I can tell you that on message boards I meet far more diverse people than anywhere else. My main social milieu revolves around the Columbia math department, which isn’t very diverse – everyone’s a member of the transnational upper middle class, and even then there’s severe segregation between whites and Asians (there are no black grads; the only Hispanic grad is from Spain and has a whiter skin than anyone else). People are geeky to varying degrees, but that’s not real diversity. Blogs for that matter are the same – pretty much everyone comes from the same educated upper middle class, or has adopted its mannerisms.

Conversely, forums, which are oriented around a random common interest, like the New York City subway or fantasy fan fiction or just having randomly strolled into the forum, are an opportunity to meet people who actually are different. Sometimes it leads to friction; usually it doesn’t, unless someone’s trying to start a flamewar.

]]> By: thundermutt http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3534 thundermutt Mon, 11 May 2009 13:24:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3534 I posted this on the "Not Current" thread:<br /><br />In the current redevelopment world, "comprehensive community development" is all the vogue among those working to revitalize run-down inner city districts. I am quite sure something is missing from its tenets (even though its focus is "quality of life planning" based upon "community organizing and engagement"). Perhaps such plans ignore the tendency you've identified of city people to want to "live and let live"? The QoL plans are drawn by a self-selected sample, people with agendas who want others to live by their standards...like your other favorite target, local historic districts?<br />---<br />Aaron, are you suggesting that the new channels are a way around both elites and self-selected civic types?<br /><br />Do you believe that the new channels actually will attract new and different people to civic debates and endeavors, or merely make it easier for the self-selected to participate?<br /><br />What about the "digital divide"? I posted this on the “Not Current” thread:

In the current redevelopment world, “comprehensive community development” is all the vogue among those working to revitalize run-down inner city districts. I am quite sure something is missing from its tenets (even though its focus is “quality of life planning” based upon “community organizing and engagement”). Perhaps such plans ignore the tendency you’ve identified of city people to want to “live and let live”? The QoL plans are drawn by a self-selected sample, people with agendas who want others to live by their standards…like your other favorite target, local historic districts?
—
Aaron, are you suggesting that the new channels are a way around both elites and self-selected civic types?

Do you believe that the new channels actually will attract new and different people to civic debates and endeavors, or merely make it easier for the self-selected to participate?

What about the “digital divide”?

]]> By: The Urbanophile http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3531 The Urbanophile Sun, 10 May 2009 23:51:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3531 Jake, absolutely, I'm glad you made the connection to the we're not current thread. That's why I advanced pulling the trigger on this post. More to come in the next installment.<br /><br />You are definitely right that the ultra-low cost of the internet channel makes it much easier for people to organized. It really lowers the barrier to entry, a general feature of the new economy.<br /><br />Thanks for the contribution. Jake, absolutely, I’m glad you made the connection to the we’re not current thread. That’s why I advanced pulling the trigger on this post. More to come in the next installment.

You are definitely right that the ultra-low cost of the internet channel makes it much easier for people to organized. It really lowers the barrier to entry, a general feature of the new economy.

Thanks for the contribution.

]]> By: Jake formerly of the LP http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/comment-page-1/#comment-3530 Jake formerly of the LP Sun, 10 May 2009 18:57:00 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-rise-of-the-new-grass-roots-part-1-the-phenomenon/#comment-3530 This ties into the "they're not current" topic I replied to as well, but if social networking and organizing by the new grass-roots gets going in cities, perhaps it can shake up the power structure that often seems to hamper cities.<br /><br /> In recent years, self-interested groups that had the time and money to organize were the only ones to get consistent access to elected officials and departments, and it increased their chances of getting things to go their way with development and political actions. If the ability of social networks and email communications can be harnessed and done in a way where this information can go over the heads of the "on-the-ground" interest groups, then perhaps we could see a shift in the understanding and engagement of the (often newly-arrived to town)citizens in the new urban economy.<br /><br /> Right now, many people do not have the time or interest to get involved in issues that might benefit them and others more than the entrenched interests that have the time and ability to get in touch with the right people. It also could lead to better ridicule of the often small-time, small-vision workers that permeate any large organization (I would argue that "saturday Night Live" and "The Daily Show" has helped expose to the average 20-something citizen much of the foolishness in Washington that that person previously would have left unchecked). And if done right, it could lead to more accountability in places where it can make a real difference in places that might need a jolt into the 21st Century. This ties into the “they’re not current” topic I replied to as well, but if social networking and organizing by the new grass-roots gets going in cities, perhaps it can shake up the power structure that often seems to hamper cities.

In recent years, self-interested groups that had the time and money to organize were the only ones to get consistent access to elected officials and departments, and it increased their chances of getting things to go their way with development and political actions. If the ability of social networks and email communications can be harnessed and done in a way where this information can go over the heads of the “on-the-ground” interest groups, then perhaps we could see a shift in the understanding and engagement of the (often newly-arrived to town)citizens in the new urban economy.

Right now, many people do not have the time or interest to get involved in issues that might benefit them and others more than the entrenched interests that have the time and ability to get in touch with the right people. It also could lead to better ridicule of the often small-time, small-vision workers that permeate any large organization (I would argue that “saturday Night Live” and “The Daily Show” has helped expose to the average 20-something citizen much of the foolishness in Washington that that person previously would have left unchecked). And if done right, it could lead to more accountability in places where it can make a real difference in places that might need a jolt into the 21st Century.

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