Comments on: Midwest Miscellany http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/ Passionate About Cities Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:39:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Alon Levy http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4707 Alon Levy Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:43:43 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4707 New York and Chicago's cores are doing relatively well because those cities developed early enough to have large core-oriented heavy rail systems. Other cities were either too small, such as Philadelphia and Boston, or developed too late, such as Los Angeles. New York and Chicago's cores are doing relatively well because those cities developed early enough to have large core-oriented heavy rail systems. Other cities were either too small, such as Philadelphia and Boston, or developed too late, such as Los Angeles.

]]> By: JG http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4702 JG Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:44:13 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4702 Those interested in improving interstate transportation and intercity congestion due to rail crosses should watch this video from a few months ago. The MWHSR has embedded it on their BLOG.<br /><br />http://mwhsr.blogspot.com/<br /><br />The TRIBUNE article (included) said $320 million have been dedicated to Chicago for freight rail infrastructure upgrades. I say this is still TOO little for the importance here nationally to quickly and CHEAPLY moving goods cross country. Those interested in improving interstate transportation and intercity congestion due to rail crosses should watch this video from a few months ago. The MWHSR has embedded it on their BLOG.

http://mwhsr.blogspot.com/

The TRIBUNE article (included) said $320 million have been dedicated to Chicago for freight rail infrastructure upgrades. I say this is still TOO little for the importance here nationally to quickly and CHEAPLY moving goods cross country.

]]> By: thundermutt http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4698 thundermutt Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:37:17 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4698 Phil, off the cuff I'd suggest that the existence of three things-- a good public transit network in Chicago which is focused on The Loop, plus the existence of auto traffic congestion on all the principal freeways, plus the presence of well-tended first-ring neighborhoods and suburbs (the bungalow belt)-- all work together to impose an invisible growth boundary in Chicago. The "tipping point" factor may be that it's as easy to commute in from nice neighborhoods as to commute out.<br /><br />This is not to suggest that there is no sprawl in Chicagoland, only that there is a force of "economic gravity" to The Loop that makes it possible to densify the core rather than building even more edge cities. Phil, off the cuff I'd suggest that the existence of three things– a good public transit network in Chicago which is focused on The Loop, plus the existence of auto traffic congestion on all the principal freeways, plus the presence of well-tended first-ring neighborhoods and suburbs (the bungalow belt)– all work together to impose an invisible growth boundary in Chicago. The "tipping point" factor may be that it's as easy to commute in from nice neighborhoods as to commute out.

This is not to suggest that there is no sprawl in Chicagoland, only that there is a force of "economic gravity" to The Loop that makes it possible to densify the core rather than building even more edge cities.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4694 Anonymous Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:57:53 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4694 A lot of the midwest msa's are growing even when the principle city in the msa isn't growing. (St. Louis, Kansas City). That got me wondering about differences in outcome. (Why is Chicago's core doing so well when Detroit's has done so poorly - I know some of it has to do with collapse of auto industry and manufacturing - but Chicago was pretty exposed to those industries too. But I am wondering more about planning responses to this issue. <br /><br />Is there some sort of urban growth boundary to limit exurban growth and redirect the growth inward (like Portland)? Or perhaps legislation that has that affect (similiar to what California did with SB 375?). <br /><br />Phil A lot of the midwest msa's are growing even when the principle city in the msa isn't growing. (St. Louis, Kansas City). That got me wondering about differences in outcome. (Why is Chicago's core doing so well when Detroit's has done so poorly – I know some of it has to do with collapse of auto industry and manufacturing – but Chicago was pretty exposed to those industries too. But I am wondering more about planning responses to this issue.

Is there some sort of urban growth boundary to limit exurban growth and redirect the growth inward (like Portland)? Or perhaps legislation that has that affect (similiar to what California did with SB 375?).

Phil

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4693 Alon Levy Sat, 08 Aug 2009 22:10:47 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4693 On another note: railways did carry people faster than horses. Before the Transcontinental Railroad was built, it took six months to get from coast to coast. Afterward, it took one week. This was every bit of a game changer as the airlines' ability to get people from New York to Los Angeles in six hours. On another note: railways did carry people faster than horses. Before the Transcontinental Railroad was built, it took six months to get from coast to coast. Afterward, it took one week. This was every bit of a game changer as the airlines' ability to get people from New York to Los Angeles in six hours.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4692 Alon Levy Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:05:33 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4692 Meh. The amount of nostalgia New York has for the early 20th century is scary. It's less obvious than agrarian romanticism because in the early 20th century New York was already a big industrial city, but the clinging to the values of yore and hatred of progress is every bit as bad. Meh. The amount of nostalgia New York has for the early 20th century is scary. It's less obvious than agrarian romanticism because in the early 20th century New York was already a big industrial city, but the clinging to the values of yore and hatred of progress is every bit as bad.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4691 Anonymous Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:04:55 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4691 Like United, Miller and Boeing, I'd also move to the Loop if you can me money. <br /><br />But yes I've not taken a job in Oak Brook, because I would have had to live out there. Like United, Miller and Boeing, I'd also move to the Loop if you can me money.

But yes I've not taken a job in Oak Brook, because I would have had to live out there.

]]> By: Michael http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4690 Michael Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:17:12 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4690 Since when is Evansville part of the South? While it would obviosly seem more Southern than Northern Indiana, it is definitely a Midwestern city. The Ohio is almost an international border for cultural and language diffences it creates. Since when is Evansville part of the South? While it would obviosly seem more Southern than Northern Indiana, it is definitely a Midwestern city. The Ohio is almost an international border for cultural and language diffences it creates.

]]> By: thundermutt http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/comment-page-1/#comment-4689 thundermutt Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:47:17 +0000 http://www.arenn.com/blog/2009/08/07/midwest-miscellany-14/#comment-4689 In terms of his social geography, I'd say Franzen hit it right on for Indiana except for that "rust belt" idea. <br /><br />I'd quibble if he was distinguishing "rust belt" from Midwest. There, he's wide of the mark, as the "Midwest" has for the past couple of generations had this schizophrenic view of itself as small-town agrarian, when in reality it's small-town and big-city industrial (at least east of Des Moines and Minneapolis).<br /><br />That schizo view probably comes from our agrarian roots, as one must go only a couple of generations back in most Midwesterners' families to find people who grew up on farms (before they went into the service or got degrees or "got on at GM"). Descendants of farm families have a soft spot for "the old home place", especially when a cousin still owns it. This, I suspect, does color our self-notion slightly toward the small-town agrarian view. In terms of his social geography, I'd say Franzen hit it right on for Indiana except for that "rust belt" idea.

I'd quibble if he was distinguishing "rust belt" from Midwest. There, he's wide of the mark, as the "Midwest" has for the past couple of generations had this schizophrenic view of itself as small-town agrarian, when in reality it's small-town and big-city industrial (at least east of Des Moines and Minneapolis).

That schizo view probably comes from our agrarian roots, as one must go only a couple of generations back in most Midwesterners' families to find people who grew up on farms (before they went into the service or got degrees or "got on at GM"). Descendants of farm families have a soft spot for "the old home place", especially when a cousin still owns it. This, I suspect, does color our self-notion slightly toward the small-town agrarian view.

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