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	<title>Comments on: The White City</title>
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	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
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		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5707</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5707</guid>
		<description>Thanks, George. By the way, as you probably know, I&#039;m a big fan of Columbus. It is doing a lot of great things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, George. By the way, as you probably know, I&#8217;m a big fan of Columbus. It is doing a lot of great things.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5706</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5706</guid>
		<description>George, it&#039;s not just speculation. You can look at the redlining maps banks and Fannie Mae used in the 1930s to decide where to give people mortgages, or even read the criteria. Even one black family on a block was enough for banks and the government to declare the block a slum, and deny mortgages to anyone who wanted to buy there. Excessive numbers of Jews, Italians, and other immigrant whites were also enough to redline the block, as was any amount of ethnic diversity.

The newer cities, which developed after this practice became illegal in the 1960s and 70s, don&#039;t have the same problems. They still have some poor inner-city/rich suburbs split due to spillover from the rest of the country, for example the bus/poverty association, but it&#039;s less stark than in the North and Midwest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, it&#8217;s not just speculation. You can look at the redlining maps banks and Fannie Mae used in the 1930s to decide where to give people mortgages, or even read the criteria. Even one black family on a block was enough for banks and the government to declare the block a slum, and deny mortgages to anyone who wanted to buy there. Excessive numbers of Jews, Italians, and other immigrant whites were also enough to redline the block, as was any amount of ethnic diversity.</p>
<p>The newer cities, which developed after this practice became illegal in the 1960s and 70s, don&#8217;t have the same problems. They still have some poor inner-city/rich suburbs split due to spillover from the rest of the country, for example the bus/poverty association, but it&#8217;s less stark than in the North and Midwest.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5702</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5702</guid>
		<description>One thought I forgot to mention.  I live in Columbus, OH, where we have a city that&#039;s 2/3 white but significant African American leadership representation, including the Mayor, a majority of City Council and the School Board.  While we are certainly not considered as &quot;progressive&quot; as Portland or Austin (yet), it will be worth watching how the City progresses.  Much of what Aaron Renn proposed for Indianapolis in this blog is actually happening in Columbus today.  Look at Mayor Coleman&#039;s plans for the King-Lincoln district just east of Downtown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thought I forgot to mention.  I live in Columbus, OH, where we have a city that&#8217;s 2/3 white but significant African American leadership representation, including the Mayor, a majority of City Council and the School Board.  While we are certainly not considered as &#8220;progressive&#8221; as Portland or Austin (yet), it will be worth watching how the City progresses.  Much of what Aaron Renn proposed for Indianapolis in this blog is actually happening in Columbus today.  Look at Mayor Coleman&#8217;s plans for the King-Lincoln district just east of Downtown.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5701</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5701</guid>
		<description>I have often speculated that one of the reasons that the United States abandoned the core of its cities while European cities reinvested in them is because of race.  Obviously this is a very complex issue, but in the 50&#039;s it probably seemed quite logical to many white Americans to leave the inner city to be closer &quot;folks like them&quot;.  This isn&#039;t just a white/black thing, think of all the Little Italys in major urban centers, but certainly the racial issues of the times did not help matters.

Then you consider European cities.  They have very homogenous populations, mostly monocultural.  In this case, the drive to be close to &quot;folks like them&quot; might have kept them where they were, and resulted in a majority of the population that favored reinvesting in the central city, as opposed to disinvesting.  

Now take this and apply it to the concept of this post.  What if the cities like Portland and Austin have more support for investing in their urban cores because of the lack of diversity?  What if people feel more comfortable investing in downtown because they see folks like themselves living there, instead of people that look different or have different cultural views.  That would have significant ramifications for our policies.

Having said all this, while a correlation has been shows, I don&#039;t see a proven causality het, so let&#039;s not jump to conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often speculated that one of the reasons that the United States abandoned the core of its cities while European cities reinvested in them is because of race.  Obviously this is a very complex issue, but in the 50&#8217;s it probably seemed quite logical to many white Americans to leave the inner city to be closer &#8220;folks like them&#8221;.  This isn&#8217;t just a white/black thing, think of all the Little Italys in major urban centers, but certainly the racial issues of the times did not help matters.</p>
<p>Then you consider European cities.  They have very homogenous populations, mostly monocultural.  In this case, the drive to be close to &#8220;folks like them&#8221; might have kept them where they were, and resulted in a majority of the population that favored reinvesting in the central city, as opposed to disinvesting.  </p>
<p>Now take this and apply it to the concept of this post.  What if the cities like Portland and Austin have more support for investing in their urban cores because of the lack of diversity?  What if people feel more comfortable investing in downtown because they see folks like themselves living there, instead of people that look different or have different cultural views.  That would have significant ramifications for our policies.</p>
<p>Having said all this, while a correlation has been shows, I don&#8217;t see a proven causality het, so let&#8217;s not jump to conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: The Urbanophile &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Urbanophile in the News</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5683</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Urbanophile in the News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5683</guid>
		<description>[...] The White City [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The White City [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MarkDilley (markdilley) 's status on Tuesday, 03-Nov-09 20:49:13 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5579</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkDilley (markdilley) 's status on Tuesday, 03-Nov-09 20:49:13 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5579</guid>
		<description>[...] Oregon - The White City http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/ via [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oregon &#8211; The White City <a href="http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/" rel="nofollow">http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/</a> via [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5549</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Portland and other &quot;white cities&quot; don&#039;t have the urban problems we have in the Midwest because they don&#039;t have a big black underclass. The black underclass is the legacy of a mix of de-industrialization combined with geographic segregation and social exclusion due to te endemic racism in the Midwest.  A topic people like to gloss over.

&quot;national&quot; white flight is not to Portland and Seattle, which are attractive for reasons other than racial homogenity.  The white flight is from California to the Intermountain West and now to places further east.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Portland and other &#8220;white cities&#8221; don&#8217;t have the urban problems we have in the Midwest because they don&#8217;t have a big black underclass. The black underclass is the legacy of a mix of de-industrialization combined with geographic segregation and social exclusion due to te endemic racism in the Midwest.  A topic people like to gloss over.</p>
<p>&#8220;national&#8221; white flight is not to Portland and Seattle, which are attractive for reasons other than racial homogenity.  The white flight is from California to the Intermountain West and now to places further east.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5545</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5545</guid>
		<description>Nathanael: there is no rich black core city, but there are upper middle-class black suburbs, especially to the east of Washington, in PG County, and Atlanta, in DeKalb County. The reference for this is The Failure of Integration, by Shirley Cashin, noteworthy for its case study of PG County.

PG County, Cashin explains, is your average suburb, where the residents are as neurotic about trying to keep poorer people out. In one section of the county, when youths from poor inner suburbs traveled in to make use of a richer town&#039;s basketball court, the town hired a private security firm to keep them out. The irony of middle-class blacks hiring security to restrict lower-class blacks was lost on most of the town&#039;s residents.

What&#039;s worse is, both PG and DeKalb Counties are the poorest suburbs in their respective metro areas - in fact, they&#039;re located on the side of downtown diametrically opposite the favored quarter. Upscale chains are loathe to open branches in the local malls, forcing the residents to drive a long way to the favored quarter suburbs. They have above-average income, but on social development metrics, they underperform even in absolute terms: PG County has both the worst schools and the highest crime rates in Maryland outside Baltimore City, with a murder rate of about 20/100,000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathanael: there is no rich black core city, but there are upper middle-class black suburbs, especially to the east of Washington, in PG County, and Atlanta, in DeKalb County. The reference for this is The Failure of Integration, by Shirley Cashin, noteworthy for its case study of PG County.</p>
<p>PG County, Cashin explains, is your average suburb, where the residents are as neurotic about trying to keep poorer people out. In one section of the county, when youths from poor inner suburbs traveled in to make use of a richer town&#8217;s basketball court, the town hired a private security firm to keep them out. The irony of middle-class blacks hiring security to restrict lower-class blacks was lost on most of the town&#8217;s residents.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s worse is, both PG and DeKalb Counties are the poorest suburbs in their respective metro areas &#8211; in fact, they&#8217;re located on the side of downtown diametrically opposite the favored quarter. Upscale chains are loathe to open branches in the local malls, forcing the residents to drive a long way to the favored quarter suburbs. They have above-average income, but on social development metrics, they underperform even in absolute terms: PG County has both the worst schools and the highest crime rates in Maryland outside Baltimore City, with a murder rate of about 20/100,000.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5541</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, BTW, check out Youngstown, OH, which is being cited as an intelligent self-reinventing city... I don&#039;t think it qualifies as a &quot;White City&quot; by a long shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, BTW, check out Youngstown, OH, which is being cited as an intelligent self-reinventing city&#8230; I don&#8217;t think it qualifies as a &#8220;White City&#8221; by a long shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/comment-page-1/#comment-5540</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arenn.com/2009/10/20/the-white-city/#comment-5540</guid>
		<description>I think there may be some cause and effect reversal in this analysis.

Because of racism, there is an excess concern over whether services will go to &quot;people like us&quot; (ugh) in cities with more black people.  *This makes it harder politically to do any sort of urban design, because it&#039;s all tied up with providing service*.  In short, cities with low levels of diversity have less trouble convincing people that everyone will benefit from whatever they build.  Because so many people are bigots.

If there were a 90% black city with any money (is there?), I would expect that it might be able to be a pioneering model city too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there may be some cause and effect reversal in this analysis.</p>
<p>Because of racism, there is an excess concern over whether services will go to &#8220;people like us&#8221; (ugh) in cities with more black people.  *This makes it harder politically to do any sort of urban design, because it&#8217;s all tied up with providing service*.  In short, cities with low levels of diversity have less trouble convincing people that everyone will benefit from whatever they build.  Because so many people are bigots.</p>
<p>If there were a 90% black city with any money (is there?), I would expect that it might be able to be a pioneering model city too.</p>
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