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	<title>Comments on: Role Reversal</title>
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	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
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		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6131</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 01:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6131</guid>
		<description>Hehe, well, Deadra, you would definitely be the expert on Southern Indiana accents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hehe, well, Deadra, you would definitely be the expert on Southern Indiana accents.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadra Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6099</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadra Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6099</guid>
		<description>Aaron I always hear a little S. Indiana when I talk to you... I often get comments on my accent, maybe I am further from a metro area than you and thus too rural - last I heard was from a McHenry Co woman : &#039;you are not from around here&#039;..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron I always hear a little S. Indiana when I talk to you&#8230; I often get comments on my accent, maybe I am further from a metro area than you and thus too rural &#8211; last I heard was from a McHenry Co woman : &#8216;you are not from around here&#8217;..</p>
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		<title>By: cdc guy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6088</link>
		<dc:creator>cdc guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6088</guid>
		<description>John M, methinks education is more the determinant than location.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John M, methinks education is more the determinant than location.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6058</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6058</guid>
		<description>AmericanDirt: the linguists in question get their data by conducting interviews and recording how people pronounce stressed vowels. There are few accent differences in consonants in English, and vowels are easy to record; for the most part they can be plotted on a two-dimensional scale. This allows linguists to say things like &quot;The Chicago pronunciation of the bot vowel is strongly fronted, approximating the GenAm value of the bat vowel.&quot;

For example, here is one &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/home.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comprehensive national telephone survey&lt;/a&gt; done by William Labov, who &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5220090&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;explains it on NPR&lt;/a&gt;.

The accent of the Tangier Island is likely to be wiped out - the trend in the last 50 years has been for rural accents to recede. There&#039;s even a book studying the spread of the Northern Cities shift in Michigan, called Small Town Values, Big City Vowels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AmericanDirt: the linguists in question get their data by conducting interviews and recording how people pronounce stressed vowels. There are few accent differences in consonants in English, and vowels are easy to record; for the most part they can be plotted on a two-dimensional scale. This allows linguists to say things like &#8220;The Chicago pronunciation of the bot vowel is strongly fronted, approximating the GenAm value of the bat vowel.&#8221;</p>
<p>For example, here is one <a href="http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/home.html" rel="nofollow">comprehensive national telephone survey</a> done by William Labov, who <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5220090" rel="nofollow">explains it on NPR</a>.</p>
<p>The accent of the Tangier Island is likely to be wiped out &#8211; the trend in the last 50 years has been for rural accents to recede. There&#8217;s even a book studying the spread of the Northern Cities shift in Michigan, called Small Town Values, Big City Vowels.</p>
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		<title>By: John M</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6055</link>
		<dc:creator>John M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6055</guid>
		<description>I think Indiana is a fascinating dialect study.  People in the northern half of Lake County speak in a manner virtually indistinguishable from the stereotypical Chicago accent (part of the “inland north” family, per linguists).  Many people from the Ohio River counties of Indiana speak with a true southern accent.  Many of the people between, say US 30 and US 50 speak with a twangy  “midland” accent that is sort of a halfway point between the upper midwest and the south, with great variation within.  

Aaron, I don’t know if the phenomenon you describe in Indianapolis is all that new.  It seems to me that Indy always has had significant regional/class dialect distinctions.  Thinking of people in my parents’ generation (boomers), it seems to me that even among lifelong  Indianapolis residents, there is a big difference between, say, a doctor who grew up on the north side and a mechanic who grew up on the west side.  I know this isn’t unique to Indianapolis, but it seems much more pronounced here than in Chicago, where natives of varying class seem to speak with a pronounced Chicago accent.  

Of course, all of the above generally pertains to the dialects of white people.  As others have noted, African-American dialects are another can of worms entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Indiana is a fascinating dialect study.  People in the northern half of Lake County speak in a manner virtually indistinguishable from the stereotypical Chicago accent (part of the “inland north” family, per linguists).  Many people from the Ohio River counties of Indiana speak with a true southern accent.  Many of the people between, say US 30 and US 50 speak with a twangy  “midland” accent that is sort of a halfway point between the upper midwest and the south, with great variation within.  </p>
<p>Aaron, I don’t know if the phenomenon you describe in Indianapolis is all that new.  It seems to me that Indy always has had significant regional/class dialect distinctions.  Thinking of people in my parents’ generation (boomers), it seems to me that even among lifelong  Indianapolis residents, there is a big difference between, say, a doctor who grew up on the north side and a mechanic who grew up on the west side.  I know this isn’t unique to Indianapolis, but it seems much more pronounced here than in Chicago, where natives of varying class seem to speak with a pronounced Chicago accent.  </p>
<p>Of course, all of the above generally pertains to the dialects of white people.  As others have noted, African-American dialects are another can of worms entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: AmericanDirt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6046</link>
		<dc:creator>AmericanDirt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6046</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be curious to know under what principles the sociolinguists Alon Levy mentions are anticipating accents to diverge more radically in upcoming years.  General observation would lead me to side with Urbanophile and cdc guy, but I&#039;m certainly open to an explanation.

The closest I have come to discerning a locational origin to the Africa-American accent that one most stereotypically links to Ebonics (whether accurately or not) is from the Lower Ninth Ward and St. Bernard Parish around New Orleans.  Working class whites and blacks lived cheek by jowl there for many decades, and it is the only area I&#039;ve seen where the whites speak not only with AA accents but the vernacular as well--and it doesn&#039;t appear to be out of the working-class solidarity we might witness among &quot;hip hop&quot; white kids in other cities.  Many white soccer moms in St. Bernard Parish would say &quot;I axed you a question&quot; whereas just 20 miles away, in upper-middle class suburban Metairie, such a word choice would be unthinkable among whites.

My favorite dialect of all, though, remains Tangier Island off the Virginia Coast, in the southern waters of the Chesapeake.  Less than a thousand people live there, and the accent is like nowhere else in the US.  YouTube has some good videos showing some of the local speech.  In this case I hope Alon is right: I never want to see homogenization through television wipe that accent out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be curious to know under what principles the sociolinguists Alon Levy mentions are anticipating accents to diverge more radically in upcoming years.  General observation would lead me to side with Urbanophile and cdc guy, but I&#8217;m certainly open to an explanation.</p>
<p>The closest I have come to discerning a locational origin to the Africa-American accent that one most stereotypically links to Ebonics (whether accurately or not) is from the Lower Ninth Ward and St. Bernard Parish around New Orleans.  Working class whites and blacks lived cheek by jowl there for many decades, and it is the only area I&#8217;ve seen where the whites speak not only with AA accents but the vernacular as well&#8211;and it doesn&#8217;t appear to be out of the working-class solidarity we might witness among &#8220;hip hop&#8221; white kids in other cities.  Many white soccer moms in St. Bernard Parish would say &#8220;I axed you a question&#8221; whereas just 20 miles away, in upper-middle class suburban Metairie, such a word choice would be unthinkable among whites.</p>
<p>My favorite dialect of all, though, remains Tangier Island off the Virginia Coast, in the southern waters of the Chesapeake.  Less than a thousand people live there, and the accent is like nowhere else in the US.  YouTube has some good videos showing some of the local speech.  In this case I hope Alon is right: I never want to see homogenization through television wipe that accent out.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6040</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6040</guid>
		<description>By the way: what is true is that some accents have fallen out of fashion and are fading out. For example, white American accents that used to drop final r&#039;s, such as Southern, no longer do. The traditional accent of New York is receding, too, due to cultural stigma. The regional accents that are spreading, such as Great Lakes and Californian, are those that there&#039;s no stigma against. Africa-American accent (which is not the same as Ebonics, which is a grammar) is spreading as well, in the sense that it&#039;s becoming a uniform national accent among blacks and diverging from General American; while whites have a stigma against AA accent, blacks don&#039;t, and as children blacks mostly associate with other blacks, giving them no reason to speak GA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way: what is true is that some accents have fallen out of fashion and are fading out. For example, white American accents that used to drop final r&#8217;s, such as Southern, no longer do. The traditional accent of New York is receding, too, due to cultural stigma. The regional accents that are spreading, such as Great Lakes and Californian, are those that there&#8217;s no stigma against. Africa-American accent (which is not the same as Ebonics, which is a grammar) is spreading as well, in the sense that it&#8217;s becoming a uniform national accent among blacks and diverging from General American; while whites have a stigma against AA accent, blacks don&#8217;t, and as children blacks mostly associate with other blacks, giving them no reason to speak GA.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6039</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6039</guid>
		<description>Actually, sociolinguists of American English believe that not only are US accents not in decline, but they&#039;re diverging so rapidly that the language will change more in the next 50 years than it did in the last 200. And the epicenter of this change, at least for whites, is in the Midwest, where Great Lakes cities are changing the language. In some areas, like the short vowels (especially the cot and cat vowels), the Midwest is changing pronunciations that hadn&#039;t changed in over a thousand years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, sociolinguists of American English believe that not only are US accents not in decline, but they&#8217;re diverging so rapidly that the language will change more in the next 50 years than it did in the last 200. And the epicenter of this change, at least for whites, is in the Midwest, where Great Lakes cities are changing the language. In some areas, like the short vowels (especially the cot and cat vowels), the Midwest is changing pronunciations that hadn&#8217;t changed in over a thousand years.</p>
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		<title>By: cdc guy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6038</link>
		<dc:creator>cdc guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6038</guid>
		<description>Cause of &quot;dialect loss&quot; in the US is less likely the Interstate system and more likely the universal presence of television in American homes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cause of &#8220;dialect loss&#8221; in the US is less likely the Interstate system and more likely the universal presence of television in American homes.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/12/01/role-reversal/comment-page-1/#comment-6037</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=998#comment-6037</guid>
		<description>Its funny how this culture has driven even product development. I shoot a LOT of photos and recently, the professional grade of Nikon and Cannon cameras have integrated functional HD movie recording features. I read an interesting article about newspapers buying up these cameras, using the still images for the print version (obviously) and being able to get the HD videos straight to their web only readers. They gave a number about how much more visible the videos were to people on the web compared to their print readers and the difference is astronomical. It is a hard pill to swallow for photographers, but one that you must either adapt and live with, or change your profession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its funny how this culture has driven even product development. I shoot a LOT of photos and recently, the professional grade of Nikon and Cannon cameras have integrated functional HD movie recording features. I read an interesting article about newspapers buying up these cameras, using the still images for the print version (obviously) and being able to get the HD videos straight to their web only readers. They gave a number about how much more visible the videos were to people on the web compared to their print readers and the difference is astronomical. It is a hard pill to swallow for photographers, but one that you must either adapt and live with, or change your profession.</p>
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