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	<title>Comments on: Want Talent? Drink at Lunch!</title>
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	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-7038</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-7038</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m from Portland and have never hesitated to order a microbrew or glass of wine with lunch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m from Portland and have never hesitated to order a microbrew or glass of wine with lunch.</p>
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		<title>By: cdc guy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6861</link>
		<dc:creator>cdc guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6861</guid>
		<description>Walker, I&#039;ll play the middle-aged obstacle here. The short answer is that it&#039;s probably not possible in this code-driven litigious era.  Nor is it possible where even &quot;think-work&quot; has become  excessively planned and proceduralized:  &quot;the system&quot; as salvation.

The only way I can see to get more flexibility at work is to flee and work for a much smaller organization, something I&#039;ve been doing progressively over a 30-year working career.  Or to work for a mostly-creative organization (arts, design, etc.).  We are unlikely to turn the great corporate battleship back to emulate a proprietor-driven era of civic involvement.

Even my own business was bigger than the office I work in now.  While an employer I tried to look at each person individually, but I also understood that too much flexibility looks to many (most) people like &quot;unfairness&quot;...and that some people will always take advantage of flexibility, and then use it against you at firing time.

Again:  no easy answer, maybe no answer at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walker, I&#8217;ll play the middle-aged obstacle here. The short answer is that it&#8217;s probably not possible in this code-driven litigious era.  Nor is it possible where even &#8220;think-work&#8221; has become  excessively planned and proceduralized:  &#8220;the system&#8221; as salvation.</p>
<p>The only way I can see to get more flexibility at work is to flee and work for a much smaller organization, something I&#8217;ve been doing progressively over a 30-year working career.  Or to work for a mostly-creative organization (arts, design, etc.).  We are unlikely to turn the great corporate battleship back to emulate a proprietor-driven era of civic involvement.</p>
<p>Even my own business was bigger than the office I work in now.  While an employer I tried to look at each person individually, but I also understood that too much flexibility looks to many (most) people like &#8220;unfairness&#8221;&#8230;and that some people will always take advantage of flexibility, and then use it against you at firing time.</p>
<p>Again:  no easy answer, maybe no answer at all.</p>
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		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6860</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6860</guid>
		<description>Walker, great comment. Very thoughtful - thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walker, great comment. Very thoughtful &#8211; thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6859</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6859</guid>
		<description>After mulling it over for awhile, I still think Aaron’s initial drinking angle makes for a sharp contrast to what is typically acceptable for lunch-time behavior in a corporate environment. So it does a great job at bringing to light the overall strict boundaries associated with business lunch hours, even if the encouragement of drinking at noon doesn’t sounds like a very feasible program to try to implement.

Having spent nearly 10 years in various white-collar work environments, I’m all too familiar with the 3,600 seconds allotted to each employee for spending during designated lunch periods, and the reprimands that can follow if the rules get stretched too far. Of course, some managers can be a little bit lax on the rules, but in many environments, being chronically late coming back form lunch is grounds for some form of work-place punishment.

Things completely changed for me once I started working for myself. Earlier this week, I had a leisurely lunch with a friend to chat about a new arts initiative I’m conceptualizing for 2010. There was no beer involved at our lunch, but the fact that we both work in environments where we can take a 90 minute lunch break meant that our time spent collaborating on a creative idea wasn’t bound by a time limit.

Of course, not all lunch breaks are spent working on ideas to help make the world a better place, but the end result can be the same after something more casual. After my particular extended lunch, I found myself energized, excited, and feeling even more productive once returning to my desk. It was invigorating to not be bound by the strict regulations I’ve faced elsewhere, but it’s also frustrating to know that I’m probably in the minority. I’m willing to bet that younger folks who are able to take a relaxed lunch make up less than 1% of the professional workforce. If you’ve ever attended a Columbus Metropolitan Club luncheon, you’ve probably noticed how few of those coveted “young professionals” are able to take that 90 minute lunch break. It’s only the upper-management who give themselves that leniency. I find it disheartening that even when it comes to something as specific as engaging in a civic forum and becoming more involved in community affairs, flexible scheduling is something that most workers have to officially request in advance, if they’re even allowed to take the time at all.

Perhaps a re-education aimed at upper-management is in order to help them understand why relaxing a bit on the rules could:

    * Help foster creativity through encouraged mid-day civic engagement
    * Decrease stress related to the lunchtime “rush”
    * Increase mid-day productivity with a more reenergizing meal time
    * Provide a better “workforce culture” that could serve our city as a more attractive environment to find a job

I’m guessing that the hardest part would be the implementation of a program like this. Anyone have any thoughts on how we can turn something like this into a widely accepted change in corporate policy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After mulling it over for awhile, I still think Aaron’s initial drinking angle makes for a sharp contrast to what is typically acceptable for lunch-time behavior in a corporate environment. So it does a great job at bringing to light the overall strict boundaries associated with business lunch hours, even if the encouragement of drinking at noon doesn’t sounds like a very feasible program to try to implement.</p>
<p>Having spent nearly 10 years in various white-collar work environments, I’m all too familiar with the 3,600 seconds allotted to each employee for spending during designated lunch periods, and the reprimands that can follow if the rules get stretched too far. Of course, some managers can be a little bit lax on the rules, but in many environments, being chronically late coming back form lunch is grounds for some form of work-place punishment.</p>
<p>Things completely changed for me once I started working for myself. Earlier this week, I had a leisurely lunch with a friend to chat about a new arts initiative I’m conceptualizing for 2010. There was no beer involved at our lunch, but the fact that we both work in environments where we can take a 90 minute lunch break meant that our time spent collaborating on a creative idea wasn’t bound by a time limit.</p>
<p>Of course, not all lunch breaks are spent working on ideas to help make the world a better place, but the end result can be the same after something more casual. After my particular extended lunch, I found myself energized, excited, and feeling even more productive once returning to my desk. It was invigorating to not be bound by the strict regulations I’ve faced elsewhere, but it’s also frustrating to know that I’m probably in the minority. I’m willing to bet that younger folks who are able to take a relaxed lunch make up less than 1% of the professional workforce. If you’ve ever attended a Columbus Metropolitan Club luncheon, you’ve probably noticed how few of those coveted “young professionals” are able to take that 90 minute lunch break. It’s only the upper-management who give themselves that leniency. I find it disheartening that even when it comes to something as specific as engaging in a civic forum and becoming more involved in community affairs, flexible scheduling is something that most workers have to officially request in advance, if they’re even allowed to take the time at all.</p>
<p>Perhaps a re-education aimed at upper-management is in order to help them understand why relaxing a bit on the rules could:</p>
<p>    * Help foster creativity through encouraged mid-day civic engagement<br />
    * Decrease stress related to the lunchtime “rush”<br />
    * Increase mid-day productivity with a more reenergizing meal time<br />
    * Provide a better “workforce culture” that could serve our city as a more attractive environment to find a job</p>
<p>I’m guessing that the hardest part would be the implementation of a program like this. Anyone have any thoughts on how we can turn something like this into a widely accepted change in corporate policy?</p>
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		<title>By: Wad</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6804</link>
		<dc:creator>Wad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6804</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the loosening of alcohol during recreational periods of the work day loosening, except for independent contractors or artisans of their own means. If you&#039;re a Dilbert, there won&#039;t be hope.

That&#039;s not necessarily a bad thing, though.

There are both problems of reality and perception when it comes to drinking while working.

The real problem is the liability issue. Your noon drinker could be your company&#039;s workers&#039; comp, insurance, legal and/or human resources nightmare by 4 p.m.

Remember, this is alcohol we&#039;re dealing with. The alcohol by volume is a known quantity; the employees&#039; tolerance to it varies widely. The &quot;I love you&quot; drunk, the &quot;I&#039;ll kill all of you in here&quot; drunk, the &quot;My life sucks and I&#039;m going to jump off this building&quot; drunk, the &quot;Who dares me to Xerox my genitals and give a copy to everyone?&quot; drunk, and the &quot;I&#039;m sick of [religious, ethnic or gender group here] having it so good all the time&quot; drunk each pose unique sets of problems.

Then there&#039;s perception. You see your bank teller tying one on at lunch, then you see that the line is moving noticeably slower in the afternoon and people mutter about miskeyed transactions and so on. Companies are afraid what a lush might do for their PR.

For right now, let the corporate world destroy you for eight hours. You have the other 16 to destroy yourself. That they&#039;ll never take away. :&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the loosening of alcohol during recreational periods of the work day loosening, except for independent contractors or artisans of their own means. If you&#8217;re a Dilbert, there won&#8217;t be hope.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not necessarily a bad thing, though.</p>
<p>There are both problems of reality and perception when it comes to drinking while working.</p>
<p>The real problem is the liability issue. Your noon drinker could be your company&#8217;s workers&#8217; comp, insurance, legal and/or human resources nightmare by 4 p.m.</p>
<p>Remember, this is alcohol we&#8217;re dealing with. The alcohol by volume is a known quantity; the employees&#8217; tolerance to it varies widely. The &#8220;I love you&#8221; drunk, the &#8220;I&#8217;ll kill all of you in here&#8221; drunk, the &#8220;My life sucks and I&#8217;m going to jump off this building&#8221; drunk, the &#8220;Who dares me to Xerox my genitals and give a copy to everyone?&#8221; drunk, and the &#8220;I&#8217;m sick of [religious, ethnic or gender group here] having it so good all the time&#8221; drunk each pose unique sets of problems.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s perception. You see your bank teller tying one on at lunch, then you see that the line is moving noticeably slower in the afternoon and people mutter about miskeyed transactions and so on. Companies are afraid what a lush might do for their PR.</p>
<p>For right now, let the corporate world destroy you for eight hours. You have the other 16 to destroy yourself. That they&#8217;ll never take away. :&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6801</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6801</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right, Jon. No more meetings at Starbucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right, Jon. No more meetings at Starbucks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Speer</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6800</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Speer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6800</guid>
		<description>Next time we meet, let&#039;s grab a beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next time we meet, let&#8217;s grab a beer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6774</guid>
		<description>When you say &quot;change the local business culture,&quot; who is the imagined subject of this verb?  Is it in the power of a particular city&#039;s business leaders to do this?  Isn&#039;t it more of a national cultural evolution, given the extent to which culture is now transmitted by national-level media?

In Australia it&#039;s still very much OK to drink at lunch, though what I observe in Sydney&#039;s lunch hour is that those who aren&#039;t having a glass over lunch are in the Botanic Garden being put through grueling aerobic routines by sadistic drill sergeants.  Of course, these may be the same people on alternate days.

In any case, I&#039;m unable to correlate Australia&#039;s culture of lunch-drinking with any of its differences from America in attracting talent.  It&#039;s a small-n problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you say &#8220;change the local business culture,&#8221; who is the imagined subject of this verb?  Is it in the power of a particular city&#8217;s business leaders to do this?  Isn&#8217;t it more of a national cultural evolution, given the extent to which culture is now transmitted by national-level media?</p>
<p>In Australia it&#8217;s still very much OK to drink at lunch, though what I observe in Sydney&#8217;s lunch hour is that those who aren&#8217;t having a glass over lunch are in the Botanic Garden being put through grueling aerobic routines by sadistic drill sergeants.  Of course, these may be the same people on alternate days.</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;m unable to correlate Australia&#8217;s culture of lunch-drinking with any of its differences from America in attracting talent.  It&#8217;s a small-n problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziggy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6771</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 04:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6771</guid>
		<description>Intriguing topic. The closer that the Midwest hews to its traditional northern European, Mediterranean, Native American, Creole and Caribbean cultural roots, the more unique and attractive we will be to the rest of the world. Less Calvinist / Protestant work ethic. More wineries, breweries, locally grown food, local art, music and theater... and the time to enjoy them. Next summer, unplug your kids and take them on a roadtrip down the Mississippi, or up the Missouri or Ohio!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intriguing topic. The closer that the Midwest hews to its traditional northern European, Mediterranean, Native American, Creole and Caribbean cultural roots, the more unique and attractive we will be to the rest of the world. Less Calvinist / Protestant work ethic. More wineries, breweries, locally grown food, local art, music and theater&#8230; and the time to enjoy them. Next summer, unplug your kids and take them on a roadtrip down the Mississippi, or up the Missouri or Ohio!</p>
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		<title>By: west town ed</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/01/14/want-talent-drink-at-lunch/comment-page-1/#comment-6769</link>
		<dc:creator>west town ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 04:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2103#comment-6769</guid>
		<description>This discussion brings back memories that go back many years.

As a junior officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, circa mid-60s, a small group of us would sometimes go to lunch together at the officer&#039;s club where we could enjoy half-dollar martinis and, of course, we would have a couple, and it was generally accepted that if we went to lunch there, we would not be expected to perform any useful work for the rest of the day. 

[If I could add a footnote, I would explain that at the Wright-Pat Officer&#039;s Club, happy hour martinis at the basement CAVU Lounge were half-priced. Thus, we drank a lot.  And smoked a lot too as cigarettes were only $2.00 a carton at the base exchange.]

Flash forward a decade and I was working in the West Loop in a computer sales office.  There, the &quot;forgotten&quot; afternoons came after a big sale when the salesmen treated his technical support team to lunch in Greek Town, a short walk away, where we drank cheap retsina and cheered the flaming cheeses.  And took the CTA Ravenswood or Howard north, or the Northwestern&#039;s 3:15 to the suburbs.

Another decade later and I was living in Sydney and celebrating 20 years with the same company. The GM of the Australian company hosted a lunch for the 8 or 9 of us where we celebrated the grand occasion with a three hour lunch with at least an equal number of bottles of wine.

Drinking a lunch (on this scale) = equals huge hangovers a  few hours later and a very bad afternoon. It was understood then that a celebration lunch = a lost afternoon.

Another decade (or so) later and I can barely tolerate a small glass of beer or wine during the day.  

Tough to do anywhere in France, as I discovered on several trips there.

A lesson here?  Nope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion brings back memories that go back many years.</p>
<p>As a junior officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, circa mid-60s, a small group of us would sometimes go to lunch together at the officer&#8217;s club where we could enjoy half-dollar martinis and, of course, we would have a couple, and it was generally accepted that if we went to lunch there, we would not be expected to perform any useful work for the rest of the day. </p>
<p>[If I could add a footnote, I would explain that at the Wright-Pat Officer's Club, happy hour martinis at the basement CAVU Lounge were half-priced. Thus, we drank a lot.  And smoked a lot too as cigarettes were only $2.00 a carton at the base exchange.]</p>
<p>Flash forward a decade and I was working in the West Loop in a computer sales office.  There, the &#8220;forgotten&#8221; afternoons came after a big sale when the salesmen treated his technical support team to lunch in Greek Town, a short walk away, where we drank cheap retsina and cheered the flaming cheeses.  And took the CTA Ravenswood or Howard north, or the Northwestern&#8217;s 3:15 to the suburbs.</p>
<p>Another decade later and I was living in Sydney and celebrating 20 years with the same company. The GM of the Australian company hosted a lunch for the 8 or 9 of us where we celebrated the grand occasion with a three hour lunch with at least an equal number of bottles of wine.</p>
<p>Drinking a lunch (on this scale) = equals huge hangovers a  few hours later and a very bad afternoon. It was understood then that a celebration lunch = a lost afternoon.</p>
<p>Another decade (or so) later and I can barely tolerate a small glass of beer or wine during the day.  </p>
<p>Tough to do anywhere in France, as I discovered on several trips there.</p>
<p>A lesson here?  Nope.</p>
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