You’re not Bob Woodward, and your developer isn’t Deep Throat. At this stage, you’re more like a faith healer and the developer is like a person claiming to have been healed by prayer.

In your quote you’ve made clear that I was reporting a developer’s view. That developer has substantial experience across the country with one of the nation’s largest builders. He’s a client. Will I betray a source by naming him? I don’t think so.

You shouldn’t take anything on faith. You should just assume away, and suggest that anyone who differs might be lying. It befits you.

A lot of good points on this thread, mostly accurate from what I can tell.

I think the “financialization” issue is part of a wider story. Finance is part of the larger “trading” and deal making function of cities. The part, that is playing a bigger and bigger role in rapidly changing economies. Yes, there’s been a huge distortion and cancerous growth in this sector but I don’t think it fully accounts for everything.

As Jane Jacobs said, the primary function of a great city is trade in one form or another. Coffee shops and restaurants serve functions way beyond just being “amenities”. They are places to meet new people, make new contacts and make deals.

It seems like regions that could combine finance, and trade with nearby manufacturing really did well. The relative development of manufacturing in southeast China wasn’t too impressive, but the level of historic trade knowledge was huge.

Aaron, the article you bring up about Columbus makes me wonder. Columbus is a state capital and big university town, two sectors of the economy that have been somewhat detached from reality. I really think the big question isn’t if a lot of people might like new sprawl housing, but the actual economic viability of this desire. A state capital can run against the grain in terms of generating lots of jobs with no need for trade or the normal needs most businesses have.

We just had a huge storm in Pittsburgh. In the whole city there are almost no buried power lines, something Wall Street had by I think 1890. Can you really sell a city that hasn’t bothered to see the value in having buried power lines?

When I expresed admiration for the walkable mixed-use portion of his project his response (as close as I can recall) was: “Glad you like them. Nobody else does. They’re our worst sellers.” He went on to contend that similar projects had consistently failed throughout the country. His take: developers were hypnotized, against their better judgment, by starry-eyed new urbanists.

Again, I’m going to assume good faith here. I’m going to assume the developer has just encountered the worse new urbanist developments, and just doesn’t know that in general, new urbanist developments sell better and keep their value better. I’m going to assume you’re reporting the developer’s views fairly. But then there’s the question: if that developer can be so wrong, why should we take it on faith that the developers you’re quoting who say greenfield development is hard are right?

http://yochicago.com/the-fight-against-urban-sprawl-in-chicago/13844/comment-page-1/#comment-50221

Thanks. I wasn’t aware of the regional strategy. Interesting alternative perspective on the pattern of urban growth in China.

Thanks for the clarification. One more question, just so I understand you. Are you offering a different explanation for the pattern Dollar observes?

I read you as contending that the government strategy for liberalization was to target less significant areas as an alternative narrative to Dollar’s.

Whenever someone argues personal knowledge, you should ask yourself, if he’s wrong on the things I do know the facts about, why should he be right on the things I don’t know the facts about?

Jim: I’m not sure Suzhou was industrialized in 1978, but it was certainly rich. It’s possible that in terms of heavy industry it was a backwater, making Dollar technically correct, but in general economic terms it wasn’t, making Dollar incorrect in reality. Bear in mind, the cities of Guangdong were poor in 1978, and it’s possible Dollar just assumed this was true for other cities.

So Suzhou wasn’t an industrial backwater in 1978 as Dollar contends? I just want to clarify if you think Dollar is wrong or that I misunderstand what Dollar wrote.