Comments on: Drew Austin: The Living…The Built…The McDonald’s Parking Lot

By: John Morris

John Morris — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:56:19 +0000

FYI, The McDonalds in Forest Hills has no parking lot. The honest fact about it is that it’s probably a hang out by default. Not too many places are thrilled or economically set up to play that role. Since seating is fairly abundant and they do a lot of take out business, having some people hanging out isn’t a problem.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:36:39 +0000

I don’t think anyone hates McDonald’s because of the urban planning issues. Parking lots, maybe, but McDonald’s main problem is that its food is bad for public health. In the US at least that’s almost the only criticism of fast food; even the slow food movement builds on this criticism.

By: John Morris

John Morris — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:36:46 +0000

Actually, the kids were more into McDonalds. The Wendy’s was very popular with older folks (closed years ago–there’s something to be said for paying customers). As you said, the triangle park on Queens Blvd was the most popular.

I guess the area had an overload of people with time on their hands. A lot of retired people.

Anyway, an interesting area showing one can pretty easily combine both city and suburb with a little common sense.

I’ve heard recently it’s become popular with Broadway actors who have families. Affordable space compared to Manhattan with quick access to the city. Shows that distance is really about transit time.

By: the urban politician

the urban politician — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:01:45 +0000

Forest Hills? That was my old digs!

Agree that the McDonald’s was packed, but it wasn’t really a hang out. Most people went there to eat.

The real hang out was the park along Queens Blvd with the chess tables, along with the cafe Piu Bello

By: John Morris

John Morris — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:18:41 +0000

Must admit that even in a very walkable place like Forest Hills, Queens which had many choices, McDonalds was a popular hang out plus the Wendy’s.

By: Seth

Seth — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:54:06 +0000

Somehow, the beautiful American culture that thrived before the invention of the assembly line has morphed into a culture of interchangeable, identical parts and not enough people seem to mind. The people in those McDonalds don’t entertain the thoughts or share the values of the man who prefers the grand park or urbanist blogger. The culture has been coarsened and woe is us to deny it.

Great repost.

By: AmericanDirt

AmericanDirt — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:46:34 +0000

Glad to see another (ex-)blogger as enraptured by the mundane as I am. He alludes to the mentality shared by many planners that explains why the profession gets far less respect than it could–and why phrases like “a sense of place” (no discrediting the similarly named blog) or “soulless sprawl” have just started seeming so cliched. Aside from being condescending, they’re incredibly limiting. The American and global palettes are too rich to dismiss anything…even McDonald’s.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:08:04 +0000

You know, I’ve noticed this phenomenon before too, in many different parts of the country, older people hanging out in a McDonald’s. There’s something about me that loves seeing it. These are people that aren’t over thinking life, McDonald’s happens to be a place close by where you can get decent coffee for an affordable price and hang out with your friends, it’s common sense. It strikes me as a much more genuine expression of culture than people sitting in a New Urbanist café, in a community self consciously designed to evoke some over-romanticized European or early 20th century American ideal. To me, it illustrates the point that human spirit and capital take precedence over urban design when it comes to defining vital places. Actually the progressive city poster child of Portland, OR is a good example of this; outside of downtown and the Pearl District I think we can agree that the urban fabric is pretty mediocre, certainly no better than dozens of other cities that aren’t doing too hot today, but the energy of the creative people there is making this an exciting place. Heck, they’re even making that bane of urbanists, the surface parking lot, into an exciting place with food carts. It’s a lesson to be studied by every city official and developer who thinks they’re going to put up a condo building with a café at street level and all of a sudden creative types will flock to their city.
So let’s go a bit further and take the 1960’s-70’s era outer ring suburb as another example of this phenomenon. These aren’t the currently trendy inner-rings or the exurbs, just a place where middle class people and immigrants can afford a home and a good school for their kids. People here are happily using spaces like shopping malls, movie theaters and McDonald’s to fulfill their social needs, spaces which most academic planners would deride as junk. What people who live in these areas need aren’t New Urbanists’ precious plazas and piazzas, they need smarter ways to get around the community that exists now. Things like car sharing, planning around the axis of the arterial as opposed to the node of the “village center”, with flexible office space close to home instead of light rail to downtown. There is a hubris in so-called new urbanist planning that is very reminiscent of the Modernist planning of the 1950’s and 60’s, and the potential for social disruption is just as great.

By: Donna

Donna — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:55:27 +0000

Reminds me of this movie called My Porcelain Past, by Kentucky filmmaker Rod Schildknecht, about a White Castle in Louisville that was closed. He filmed the last 24 hours of the business, which had become a major neighborhood gathering place, including the same old men that Austin mentions at McDonald’s.

Link here: http://www.ronschildknecht.com/films/myporcelainpast.html