<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Downsides of Consolidation #2 &#8211; Cost Increases, Dilution of Urban Interests, Deferred Problems</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/</link>
	<description>Passionate About Cities</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:28:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: cdc guy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7494</link>
		<dc:creator>cdc guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7494</guid>
		<description>In Indianapolis, the zoning code spells out development standards for each zoning classification.  They are inextricably linked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Indianapolis, the zoning code spells out development standards for each zoning classification.  They are inextricably linked.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DetBurbs</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7493</link>
		<dc:creator>DetBurbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7493</guid>
		<description>&quot;Indianapolis has several downtown zoning classifications that are most assuredly not suburban:&quot;

Don&#039;t confuse zoning classifications with development standards. One can allow urban core density without requiring the elements of urban development that yield a livable downtown. I&#039;ve only been to Indianapolis a couple of times but I found areas close to downtown unwalkable, including one notorious area that was featured here in a critique of Indy&#039;s development standards. I&#039;ll leave it to the Indy locals to hash out this battle but from my limited experience, Indianapolis has a ways to go in that regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Indianapolis has several downtown zoning classifications that are most assuredly not suburban:&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t confuse zoning classifications with development standards. One can allow urban core density without requiring the elements of urban development that yield a livable downtown. I&#8217;ve only been to Indianapolis a couple of times but I found areas close to downtown unwalkable, including one notorious area that was featured here in a critique of Indy&#8217;s development standards. I&#8217;ll leave it to the Indy locals to hash out this battle but from my limited experience, Indianapolis has a ways to go in that regard.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7492</link>
		<dc:creator>John Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7492</guid>
		<description>Been to busy to follow this thread or even really read the post in depth.

I do think the general category, &quot;dilution of urban interests&quot; is a doozy reason to be worried about consolidation.

The bottom line is that small cities should have a strong incentive to maximize land use and land value in the most rational way. Putting basically suburban interests in charge of the city takes away that incentive at least for a while.

This is why, my strong guess is that NYC had it never consolidated would have made a faster transition to a fully urban transit oriented city.

Look at the weird things going on with NYC&#039;s recent zoning changes. Large areas near transit were upzoned and there are all kinds of car limiting strategies--great, great awesome! But, then at the same time low density areas like Bayside, College Point and Belrose near the border of Nassau County pushed for down zoning and car oriented policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been to busy to follow this thread or even really read the post in depth.</p>
<p>I do think the general category, &#8220;dilution of urban interests&#8221; is a doozy reason to be worried about consolidation.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that small cities should have a strong incentive to maximize land use and land value in the most rational way. Putting basically suburban interests in charge of the city takes away that incentive at least for a while.</p>
<p>This is why, my strong guess is that NYC had it never consolidated would have made a faster transition to a fully urban transit oriented city.</p>
<p>Look at the weird things going on with NYC&#8217;s recent zoning changes. Large areas near transit were upzoned and there are all kinds of car limiting strategies&#8211;great, great awesome! But, then at the same time low density areas like Bayside, College Point and Belrose near the border of Nassau County pushed for down zoning and car oriented policies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7491</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7491</guid>
		<description>Toronto doesn&#039;t have any more top-down planning or polarization than Southern California, which is decidedly unconsolidated. In one way it has less polarization within the city - namely, the race wars have moved elsewhere. In SoCal, you have entire sections of Los Angeles plus a zillion smaller cities that scream things that all boil down to &quot;We&#039;re better than everyone else because we&#039;re still majority-white.&quot; In the GTA, this exists, too, but you need to go to Mississauga to see it. Overall Toronto does a much better job actually listening to minorities than the unconsolidated American cities, except for those that have been black-majority for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toronto doesn&#8217;t have any more top-down planning or polarization than Southern California, which is decidedly unconsolidated. In one way it has less polarization within the city &#8211; namely, the race wars have moved elsewhere. In SoCal, you have entire sections of Los Angeles plus a zillion smaller cities that scream things that all boil down to &#8220;We&#8217;re better than everyone else because we&#8217;re still majority-white.&#8221; In the GTA, this exists, too, but you need to go to Mississauga to see it. Overall Toronto does a much better job actually listening to minorities than the unconsolidated American cities, except for those that have been black-majority for a long time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7490</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7490</guid>
		<description>&quot;Indianapolis appears to suffer from a lack of understanding of what are appropriate development standards for a downtown area.&quot;

Indianapolis has several downtown zoning classifications that are most assuredly not suburban:  CBD-1, -2, and -3.  They are largely applied in the core downtown (the old &quot;mile square&quot;, which is the original 1820&#039;s plat).  It also has a &quot;Regional Center&quot; overlay zoning that includes the expanded urban core, as well as &quot;hospital&quot; and &quot;campus&quot; zoning classifications that apply to large tracts in the Regional Center area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Indianapolis appears to suffer from a lack of understanding of what are appropriate development standards for a downtown area.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indianapolis has several downtown zoning classifications that are most assuredly not suburban:  CBD-1, -2, and -3.  They are largely applied in the core downtown (the old &#8220;mile square&#8221;, which is the original 1820&#8217;s plat).  It also has a &#8220;Regional Center&#8221; overlay zoning that includes the expanded urban core, as well as &#8220;hospital&#8221; and &#8220;campus&#8221; zoning classifications that apply to large tracts in the Regional Center area.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7489</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7489</guid>
		<description>By the way, I think the fire mergers are a good idea regardless of whether or not they save money.  A city deserves common institutions, common service levels, and as many common tax bases elements as possible. That&#039;s my rationale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I think the fire mergers are a good idea regardless of whether or not they save money.  A city deserves common institutions, common service levels, and as many common tax bases elements as possible. That&#8217;s my rationale.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7488</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7488</guid>
		<description>IndyWorks, that&#039;s the challenge. The benefits are theoretical, and only happen at some indeterminate time in the future, while the costs are real and immediate. Savitch and Vogel cited academic literature on consolidations that showed no cost savings. The multiple accounting reports commissioned in Louisville showed no savings.

I happen to have run post-merger integration projects in the corporate world.  Firstly, most large mergers in the corporate world destroy value. The accommodations you have to make to get mergers passed in the public sector world are the equivalent of overpaying for an acquisition.

There are real and tangible cost cutting benefits from private sector mergers.  There is usually a focus on capturing these quickly, usually within a year. The results have often been promised to shareholders and have to be delivered.  Upwards harmonization is generally not an issue. A lot of the savings come from things like IT redundancy, which would not appear to be the case in something like fire departments. Layoffs are much easier to accomplish. Etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens.  I&#039;ll monitor the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IndyWorks, that&#8217;s the challenge. The benefits are theoretical, and only happen at some indeterminate time in the future, while the costs are real and immediate. Savitch and Vogel cited academic literature on consolidations that showed no cost savings. The multiple accounting reports commissioned in Louisville showed no savings.</p>
<p>I happen to have run post-merger integration projects in the corporate world.  Firstly, most large mergers in the corporate world destroy value. The accommodations you have to make to get mergers passed in the public sector world are the equivalent of overpaying for an acquisition.</p>
<p>There are real and tangible cost cutting benefits from private sector mergers.  There is usually a focus on capturing these quickly, usually within a year. The results have often been promised to shareholders and have to be delivered.  Upwards harmonization is generally not an issue. A lot of the savings come from things like IT redundancy, which would not appear to be the case in something like fire departments. Layoffs are much easier to accomplish. Etc.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see what happens.  I&#8217;ll monitor the situation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher Hylarides</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7485</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Hylarides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7485</guid>
		<description>Alon Levy:  I&#039;m not saying Toronto is a failure, but it&#039;s fiscal issues as well as polarization of it&#039;s politics and &quot;one size fits all&quot; planning has been detrimental, whether it was under rightist (and suburban elected) Mel Lastman or the current lefty (and inner city backed) David Miller.  Also, Aaron&#039;s points on salary reconciliation and top-down planning exactly happened as he described.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon Levy:  I&#8217;m not saying Toronto is a failure, but it&#8217;s fiscal issues as well as polarization of it&#8217;s politics and &#8220;one size fits all&#8221; planning has been detrimental, whether it was under rightist (and suburban elected) Mel Lastman or the current lefty (and inner city backed) David Miller.  Also, Aaron&#8217;s points on salary reconciliation and top-down planning exactly happened as he described.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IndyWorks!</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7484</link>
		<dc:creator>IndyWorks!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7484</guid>
		<description>None to date. The true efficiency comes through full, county-wide consolidation, not township by township as is currently the case. It is likely that future consolidations will be more difficult unless forced. This is because IFD cannot absorb the current staffing levels of the township departments to achieve desired efficiency. Still, those departments refuse to consolidate, choosing rather to operate on borrowed money (emergency loans) not included in the annual budgets. One way to solve this without consolidation would be to require City-County Council approval of township budgets- a proposal recently discarded by the Indiana General Assembly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None to date. The true efficiency comes through full, county-wide consolidation, not township by township as is currently the case. It is likely that future consolidations will be more difficult unless forced. This is because IFD cannot absorb the current staffing levels of the township departments to achieve desired efficiency. Still, those departments refuse to consolidate, choosing rather to operate on borrowed money (emergency loans) not included in the annual budgets. One way to solve this without consolidation would be to require City-County Council approval of township budgets- a proposal recently discarded by the Indiana General Assembly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Urbanophile</title>
		<link>http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/03/07/downsides-of-consolidation-2-cost-increases-dilution-of-urban-interests-deferred-problems/comment-page-1/#comment-7483</link>
		<dc:creator>The Urbanophile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbanophile.com/?p=2435#comment-7483</guid>
		<description>How many fire fighter positions have been eliminated to date?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many fire fighter positions have been eliminated to date?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

