Perhaps the most interesting urbanist election Tuesday was in Cincinnati, where the main issue in the campaign seems to have been the under-construction streetcar project. John Cranley, a Democrat who vowed to halt construction, as well as to cancel a pending parking privatization contract, was elected by a significant margin over Roxanne Qualls. Given that an anti-streetcar city council was elected as well, it seems likely Cincinnati will halt the project.
Let me stipulate that I was never really that big a fan of the streetcar. Not evil, but certainly not at the top of what I’d see as the priority list for Cincinnati. And I’m a resolute opponent of parking meter privatizations as most of you know. Yet I can’t help but see this as a perfect example of why Cincinnati, a city that has more assets than any comparable sized place in America, has long been a national laggard.
The New Republican Strategy: Cancelling In-Flight Projects
But before that, I’d like to highlight this as part of a national trend. As with Chris Christie and the ARC tunnel project in New York, Cranley (a Democrat backed by the Tea Party) has vowed to stop the streetcar project, even though $22 million has already been spent on it and another $71.4 million has already been obligated through contracts and is underway. (To put it in perspective, this is $95 million out of the total $133 million cost, a total that while, not cheap, certainly is nowhere near say stadium or major highway projects). Streetcar supporters say that it will cost more to stop the project than finish it. The project manager disputes that but admits the cancellation cost is unknown. I suspect the cancellation costs will be pretty steep, and local government will take a bath on it since there are a huge amount of federal grants on the project that can’t be used and would even have to be paid back. This will no doubt also tarnish Cincinnati’s reputation with the US DOT, and I wouldn’t expect any discretionary grants to be becoming their way anytime soon.
Christie and Cranley aren’t the only ones. Several Republican governors also turned back grants and cancelled projects approved by their predecessors. It’s worth mentioning that none of these guys ever turns back a highway grant, no matter how big the boondoggle. This belies the notion that Republican these politicians are actually fiscal conservatives.
This seems to be the new normal, and it’s going to increasingly make doing anything difficult. A city or state can spend untold years on a project and actually spend a boatload of money, only to have one election result in everything being thrown into the trash, even if construction is half over. (In fairness, the Democrats have uncorked what I believe to be an even more toxic dynamic, namely refusing to enforce laws their politicians don’t like. I already see state level Republicans nibbling at this in response, and I think it is going to get very, very ugly).
Why Cincinnati Has Struggled
This also illustrates perfectly why Cincinnati has struggled for so long. It’s a city with deep and toxic public divides, maybe the worst I’ve ever seen in America. Until this is overcome, which seems unlikely, don’t expect Cincinnati to be reaching its potential anytime soon.
As for Cranley, he says “we want to move the city forward.” However, his entire campaign was premised on stopping the city from moving forward in a direction he didn’t like. He may have said some things I’ve missed, but in the coverage I’ve seen of this, he hasn’t put forth any alternative vision, merely typical election-cycle bromides about balancing budgets and more cops and firefighters. It’s difficult for me to believe that a guy who ran for office to stop stuff will suddenly morph into a someone with a positive agenda, but we shall see.
In that Enquirer article, a commenter named Mark Miller (which a commenter suggests may be a pseudonymous account named after a local Tea Party leader) said, “Today is a very sad day for Cincinnati. Not only are we going back four years, we are setting this city back 50 years or more. One only has to look at the Cincinnati subway to see what small thinking brings to this city. Once we were Chicago. Post subway we could only hope to be Indy or Toledo.” That’s revealing of the extraordinary regard in which it holds itself. It’s also not strictly true. But it does get at something, namely that Cincinnati has squandered advantages most places would kill to have while other cities that started without much have actually gone on to build things.
It just goes to show that the real measure of a city isn’t in the stuff it has, but in the culture of its people. I know many incredible people in Cincinnati, but the cold reality is that the culture of the city is one of smug self-regard and self-sabotage. Until that changes, don’t expect Cincinnati to achieve the greatness of which it is manifestly so capable.
The success of any organization, public or private, rests on its ability to make good decisions, to get people to use their talent collectively in making things. Cities are no different in this than companies. Any company that took a long time to make a decision and then reversed itself would see itself overtaken by competitors. The same is true for cities. The ones that steadily make a series of good decisions will outpace those that make very few or even reverse those already made.
I haven’t been to Cincinnati. I have heard great things about Dayton. There’s a surprisingly stronger voter sentiment right now that people want people in office who are not anti-government, who will simply make it work. That showed itself in a number of elections Tuesday. It sounds like this new city council needs to show it can make things work.
To clarify, Mayor Cranley is a member of the Democratic Party. He is not Republican.
Thx – I mentioned it at the top, but clearly messed up on the middle section. I added some clarification.
Ultimately, the streetcar is pretty low on the priority list when the city is on pace for record-high homicides and leads the nation in child poverty. Cranley was the only candidate who addressed poverty and Qualls didn’t help herself by helping to sell the city’s assets down the river in the form of privatizing parking. The streetcar just looked like another sweet deal for real estate prospectors such as Qualls. Over the Rhine’s gentrification thus far has done absolutely nothing to lessen poverty and crime in the city and there was no reason to think the streetcar was going to change that.
Having heard on NPR this morning about the rationale and interviews of participants of the Atlanta trolley system being built I can say with no hesitation that there is NO loss for Cincy in abandoning theirs. The interviews in Atlanta of potential users decried a general theme of a road to nowhere that is outrageously expensive and that an improved bus system would be better at a fraction of the cost. Why is everyone crying about the Cincy streetcar derailment? I just don’t get it. Those that are whining the loudest are probably those with a like contractors or city employees with a vested interest in using taxpayers money wastefully. And for the record, I am a supporter of GOOD public tansportation projects like in Portland, Oregon and what is going on in Cleveland with their Health Line super bus system.
To be fair, the outgoing administration made a point to sign as many contracts for the streetcar as they could, knowing that the election would likely bring in people who would be against the project. For example they obligated 14 or so million to buy vehicles years before any track will actually be completed and well before they needed them.
That is to say, the project is only as fully underway as it now appears to be because the people in council wanted to lock it in and make their political competitors looks like asses if and when they scrapped the project. In that sense, if the outgoing administration knew full well that it would likely be cancelled, they’re partly to blame for the high costs of cancellation.
The Cincinnati street car is a waste of money. It doesn’t go outside of Cincinnati. We already have Metro buses including the buses that travel around Newport to Fountain Square. Why do we need a street car that drives around less than 10 miles? If you are going to build something.. build something that goes to Dayton, Chicago, Lexington, Louisville, Indianapolis, etc. Not some stupid street car to help crime spread from over the rhine to the rest of the city.
Also, Cranley is trying to get the funding spent elsewhere. We need a new bridge to Kentucky, that is one thing that needs to be the highest priority. What about just improving the Metro bus service instead?
Cincinnati has shot itself in the foot. Normally I’d be skeptical of the streetcar, but that city and the area the streetcar runs through has so much unlocked potential its not even funny.
Its oftentimes like Cincinnatians are completely blind to what’s in front of them. I think I’ll be following the city less and while Chicago has its problems, I’m happy I’m here and not down there still after this election.
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So someone starts a horrifically expensive PR project while CPS is nightmare. The new mayor promises to clean up this credit card mentality garbage and he’s “…setting the city back….”? Rent a bulldozer and so help me I’ll drive it myself.
Let’s assume the streetcar is in the “not worth category”. It still doesn’t explain why you make stopping it the centerpiece of a campaign. Or how stopping the streetcar is somehow going to address the issues of poverty, crime, schools, etc. Clearly, there is something more at play here, especially given the viscerally negative reactions to the streetcar far out of proportion to any possible rationale.
@Nate Wessel, the “outgoing administration” signed those contracts long before the election. Long before anyone knew how the election would turn out. The elected officials two years ago were almost all streetcar supporters. Your accusation has no basis in reality.
@Randy, you complain about the streetcar not going anywhere, then turn around and say it’s going to spread crime to other parts of the city. You completely contradicted yourself. Do you think about things before you write them?
The money for the streetcar is federal money. It can only be used for the streetcar. The only options are to spend it on the streetcar or send it back to Washington. If it gets sent back to Washington it will be redirected to another public transit project in another city. It will NOT be used to pay debts, it will NOT go to a new bridge. The multi-BILLION dollar bridge will be paid for with a toll. Canceling the streetcar will make no difference on the bridge project. These points have been made many times to the streetcar haters, but it always falls on deaf ears. They use the same blatantly wrong, irrational arguments, which are what they want to believe, and have no basis in reality.
Also, that funding cannot be spent on the bridge, and the amount of money it costs to build that monstorsity is 10x what it costs to build a small streetcar.
Where does the federal money come? Magic?
It took about 8 to 10 years to get the streetcar started. There were two public referendums, both of which supported the project. Study after study documented that the project would benefit the City $3 for every $1 spent. Property values along the proposed route have already appreciated in anticipation of the streetcar, and various residential projects were on the drawing boards contingent on the streetcar. For downtown businesses, the streetcar offered an alternative for expensive downtown parking. Customers could park anywhere on the streetcar route for free, and then take a short ride downtown. Furthermore, streetcars have been universally endorsed for the elderly (there are no steps) and the Cincinnati route provided access to a long list of services for the elderly and handicapped. The construction began only after the streetcar hurdled obstacle after obstacle, and now, if stopped, the City loses credibility for those who make business decisions based upon actions of the City. The issue is not whether the streetcar should be built. That decision was already made, and made, and made. The issue is whether the decision already made after years of political wrangling should be undone. The article captures well the frustration of a City seemingly incapable of making decisions which can be relied upon, and seemingly so willing to be self-destructive in the process.
As far as I can tell, the street car is not intended to address any immediate need, so saying we could just improve the Metro system (which we certainly could) it’s really the right point on which to focus. The street car was supposed to be part of a long game plan to slow the corrosion of the city by encouraging development to build the tax base. This is essential since the population (and the revenues that go with it) has been shrinking for decades, making the burden of paying for even essential services much more difficult. Qualls’s view was one that identified growth and growth in the downtown core as essential, and she envisioned that process developing over a longer period of time.
By contrast, Cranley’s emphasis on balancing the budget now and shoring up the “neighborhoods” indicates, to my mind at least, no plan for how to address the problems that the city faces even in supporting existing infrastructure. He won primarily by playing the concerns of the near-suburbanites who see no personal benefit in having functioning public infrastructure downtown. Of course, that infrastructure is not directly for them. It’s for future residents who would want to live in the urban core. I am very concerned that Cranley has little to offer to address the need for growth. Stalling at this stage means not standing still, but rather further corrosion as we cannot afford, at present, to pay for necessary services with the existing tax base.
@Justin – By parts of the city… I mean the street car needs to go outside of Hamilton County. We don’t need a street car. Nobody is going to use it. We have a metro bus system that is already in place. Who actually parks their car under the banks then thinks “oh wow, I really want to visit OTR without driving my car, I wish I could pay $2 to ride a street car up two miles”.
As I said, he is working on getting the money to put it somewhere else. How do you know it can only be used on the street car? He is already in talks with the White House about it. Until he gets a final answer, you can’t say it will only be used for street car.
Is it any wonder that “Federal money” is earmarked for streetcars only and the death spiral this country is in? And the corresponding attitude of cities and their politicians and the something for nothing “we have to do it now” scenario being played out here? This project was a boondoggle from the start despite its backers weak arguments about the elderly and the like. If indeed Cincy has far more pressing problems it would best be served by focusing on those and not this magic dust project.
@Randy, how do I know? Because it is THE LAW. Perhaps you were asleep when John Kasich cancelled money for the streetcar several years ago, then tried to get its federal money redirected to a highway project. What happened? The money was redirected to public transit projects in California and several other states. Every penny left Ohio. The same with happen with the streetcar. Educate yourself.
^Correction. Kasich cancelled the federal money for the 3C rail project, which was then redirected to California, etc. It wasn’t streetcar money. Same concept though. Feds budget for specific kinds of projects, if the money is sent back it is redirected to similar mass transit projects in other cities.
So…two scrapped mass transit projects sitting in Cincinnati. I suppose the tracks that are now laying in front of Music Hall will become a part of the 2025 “StreetCar” tour as a reminder of how backwards thinking this city really is. Who needs mass transit when we have cars? Build more roads for cars that people are driving less. We need more cars and fossil fuels. Yep. That’s what we need. We don’t need no stinking trains when we have cars. More cars. More roads dammit!
…and back to the same Cincinnati I left 13 years ago. Now in Chicago, although I hate Rahm as a mayor, hes great for transportation. Cincinnatians need to cut their dependence on tahoes and land rovers. Super Unnecessary Vehicles.
Please stop supporting credit card mentality. Our federal government is broke. I guess you all missed the news about multiple shutdowns, raising the debt ceiling, ect. How is taking federal money to raise the value of a few properties owned by our corrupt city council a good idea?
I want to know how many people talking about improving the metro bus system have actually ridden a bus. My guess is it would be under 25%. FYI, there is no magical way to make a bus system quicker or more reliable other than have more buses and there is no evidence that this is needed right now. The streetcar is for residents AND tourists as an easy way to get around downtown. If governor Kasich would have let the original plan go through we would have a streetcar that goes all the way to the zoo. Yes, there is a bus that gets your from downtown to the zoo but it is no way as convenient or reliable as a streetcar would be. Now the opponents are willing to get their way by taking all of the money away and actually wasting federal funds specifically designated to public transit. Just another example of voters who are stuck in 30 years ago. Our city will never reach its full potential without another mode of public transit and I strongly believe this is a fact.
The Cincinnati city government did a terrible job of letting people know what the advantages of the streetcar would bring to the city. The streetcar will increase property values along the route as well as increase the residential population. The tax revenue will more than pay for the streetcar. Studies have shown as much as 27 to 1 return on the dollar, but an ultra conservative number is 2.9 to 1. It does not take a genius to figure out that it is a good investment. The bus system does not spur economic development because it can and has been changed routes in a couple of days. It appears to me, Cincinnati people do not want to attract new people to the area. If you didn’t go to high school here, you don’t fit in. I was amazed at the people that “drank the kool-aide” of Cranley. He can not get the federal funding spent elsewhere. It will go to one of the other cities waiting in line. It was a brilliant campaign on his part though. He ran as a “Democrat” (LOL) but was backed by the Republicans and the Tea-Party, as well as a group called COAST. He had no valid plan to improve Cincinnati. I read his “Hands Up Initiative” that was suppose to reduce the poverty rate and I laughed. The voter turnout was embarrassing. If you didn’t vote, you can’t complain. It is a shame that the few people that voted will determine the outcome of this city. Good luck to the new administration. I’m not from this area, I can run my business anywhere and don’t know if I’ll stay.
@Aaron Renn – btw, you probably should note that Mark Miller is most likely a pseudonym, that’s actually the same name of a leader of COAST – the most vehemently anti-streetcar group in the region.
Thanks, Neil. I added a note to that effect.
Aaron, you are spot on when you say “Clearly, there is something more at play here, especially given the viscerally negative reactions to the streetcar far out of proportion to any possible rationale.” A few comments from the streetcar “haters,” as they have become to be known, that seen online include that the streetcar is a United Nations Agenda 21 Conspiracy, “the end of humanity,” and “just another place for people to get raped and murdered.” The most common comment is the totally baseless assumption that “no one will ride it.” In Randy’s comment above he states, “Who actually parks their car under the banks then thinks “oh wow, I really want to visit OTR without driving my car, I wish I could pay $2 to ride a street car up two miles.” Well I personally know A LOT of people that would do that because OTR has tons of dining and entertainment options that are great to take advantage of before and after Reds games. I have been in that exact situation quite a number of times. Cincinnati is full of people like Randy who are so closed minded that they absolutely can’t comprehend anything outside of their own lifestyles and who, quite frankly, don’t get out that much.
As you mentioned, the “$133 million cost, a total that while, not cheap, certainly is nowhere near say stadium or major highway projects.” The operation costs are estimated around 3 million a year and will certainly will not “turn us into the next Detroit” as many detractors claim. There is no rational reason that this project has turned into the seven year holy war that it has, unless it’s something in Cincinnati’s DNA as you seem to be getting at in this article.
that should read *that I have seen online*
The Kentucky state line does not begin on the banks of the Ohio River, it extends across most of the river (note where the “welcome to Kentucky” signs are when you cross any of the many bridges), meaning that Kentucky owns and maintains the bridges that cross the river from Cincinnati to Kentucky. While there is a need for a new bridge on Interstate 71/75, this will be built with federal and Kentucky state money, not any from the city of Cincinnati, so saying money should be diverted there, is laughable. The debate is that Kentucky wants the state of Ohio to chip in this time, but certainly the city of Cincinnati won’t be paying for that bridge in any way but through the proposed tolls its residents might have to pay.
I’ve lived in Cincinnati for 18 years. I have lived downtown or in Over the Rhine (and area just north of the business district), the neighborhoods that would be serviced by the streetcar, for most of that time. I’m afraid I have to agree with your assessment completely.
The city is rich in history and architecture, unfortunately most of these assets sit in neighborhoods that are or were recently blighted. City leadership and burb dwellers were content to let these assets rot from the 70’s until the last decade. In the last decade several projects in the core have been completed and with success, Washington Park and Smale Riverfront park to name a couple. The progress in the last 8 years has been amazing. But this kind of investment in downtown breeds resentment in the burbs, and I believe the low voter turnout on Tuesday gave them the opening they were looking to exploit.
I can’t tell you how disappointed I am by the election results. I have grown to love Cincinnati; she has been good to me. I am a creative, professional making a great living. I don’t have kids, nor do I intend to. I am just the person with discretionary income and a love of urban environments the city needs to keep. I want decent public transit, walkable and bike-able neighborhoods. The city has made incredible progress in these areas, but I’m afraid this election will bring all of that to a halt.
Cincinnati, I love you, but I just can’t watch you shoot yourself in the foot anymore. There are cities that have what I’m looking for now. Maybe it’s time that I leave you to your dysfunction and give-up hope that I can change you.
Please spare me all of this crap. Taxing everyone so the small minority of businesses get marginally better sales. Lets tax people who never ride it so other entitled people who will never ride can pat themselves on the back. Maybe we can help those poor inner-city people by building them a tram while we drive around in SUVs and look down our noses. Wanna really help? Volunteer as a mentor for whizzkids. Help out with CPS. Wake up from your tax crazed wet dream.
This article’s comments got quite a few anti-streetcar voices, here are a number of voices that are prostreetcar who are quite upset by everything Cranley has promised: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/07/enquirer-readers-to-john-cranley-save-the-streetcar/
Indeed, I created the Mark Miller pseudonym. It should be noted that I HAD to create another Facebook account, after our newspaper of record decided to ban my comments from their website. They have a longstanding practice of banning commenters they disagree with. So much for free speech.
Mark W Miller, BTW, is the treasurer of COAST. COAST stands for holding our government accountable by reducing spending and taxes. Ironically, Mr. Miller won’t hold himself accountable, because his home has been foreclosed on, twice, and he has been sued by a local private school for not paying his bills.
Lastly, our election was designed by Cranley to divide our city by pitting the inner suburbs against downtown. By doing so he created a great deal of jealousy and resentment among our citizens, and caused damage that won’t be repaired for years.
His policy of cancelling the streetcar, and reprogramming money for more highways and interchanges, will only cause more flight, while the national trend shows people want to move back into the urban core so they can enjoy walkable lifestyles.
Our city has been incapable of looking ahead and projecting the needs of its residents of the future. Many here only look to today and tomorrow. Many look to the 1980’s for enlightenment and reflection. Which explains why we elected an anti-transit republican errrrr democrat as our next mayor.
The streetcar opponents seem to have selective memory. We had two referenda on the streetcar (in 2009 and 2011) and in both cases, the streetcar supporters won. Now, they’re claiming that this year’s mayoral election was a referendum on the streetcar. But what about, you know, the two *actual* referenda that we had?
Fun fact: In 2009, 40,288 people voted pro-streetcar. In 2011, 37,462 people voted pro-streetcar. In 2013, 32,716 people voted for John Cranley.
I don’t live in Cincinnati. I don’t even live in Ohio. I was born there and was moved away as a child but have always wanted to come back but life has just provided the opportunity yet. So I am a fan from afar.
That said, it would be a shame to see the city shut down such a great opportunity to further strengthen the revitalization of the Central Business District and Over-the-Rhine.
There is no doubt that crime, poverty, and public schools are major problems that need addressed but anyone with a basic understanding of municipal budgeting, the unique restrictions that it entails as compared to private enterprise budgeting, and how federal funding and grant awards work can tell you that the money being directed toward the streetcar legally cannot be re-directed to address the city’s sociological, criminal, or pension woes nor is it going to be allocated to replacing the Brent Spence Bridge (which could have been underway by now if Kentucky would accept the fact that tolls are the only way it is going to get done). All funds awarded are returned back to the agency that gave it and it is re-distributed elsewhere. If Cincinnati rejects these funds, taxes won’t go down, the national deficit won’t decrease. The money just gets shipped somewhere else. The federal allocation of funds is a different conversation entirely. As an aside, I find it amusing that people on here citing Cincinnati’s problems with schools and crime trumpet Chicago whose sociological ills pale in comparison to what Cincinnati faces.
In terms of the long term operations, unlike “free” public roads and non-tolled highways, the streetcar has a mechanism in which it can fund itself via fares. Furthermore, the increase in tax revenue from the economic development, both commercial and residential, that it will spur will only add to the city’s coffers providing additional funding. The return on investment potential here is absolutely enormous. Legacy costs in terms of maintenance are a moot point when you consider the legacy costs created by the construction of new highways, bridges, and interchanges which are probably as much if not more.
The streetcar is just a segment and strategic first step of what should be an overall mass transit plan for the not just the city but the entire region which will eventually include streetcar or commuter rail service to many neighborhoods. Imagine connecting Mount Lookout to Union Terminal, the Banks to Glendale, Eden Park to Price Hill. The network has to start somewhere and there is no doubt that downtown, the heart of the region, is the most logical place to start.
For those that argue that buses and buses parading as trolleys could do the same thing, they fail to understand how important it is to economic development that transit routes be fixed not to mention the greater efficiency in transit times rail can have due to traffic prioritization. How often has a bus route been discontinued or some flash in the pan trolley or tourist trap fizzled out? They aren’t reliable. Tracks in the ground are. They aren’t going anywhere. That is the kind of certainty businesses need. Bus routes cannot provide this. Trolleys on wheels cannot provide this. Rail can.
I really hope that the mayor and council elects come to see this reality. Not only would canceling the project further the perception of the city that is backwards, short sighted, not progressive, living in the past, and easily manipulated by media personalities, it will also serve as yet another blow to civic pride. Cleveland has commuter rail…even Pittsburgh has commuter rail. That in itself should be enough for “proud” Cincinnatians to demand an even better rail system all their own.
The viciousness of the urban/suburban divide in Cincinnati is remarkable, but it does not mean that there is an effective political majority opposed to real reform in Cincinnati, it means that there is a space between the anti and pro change forces that can be exploited at times. The creation of a new regional development authority and a regional sewer system run by the central city all work against those who seek to divide and conquer such as cranely. A new parking lease deal by the regional authority and an expanding area along the riverfront on land owned by Hamilton county are all building regional assets that cranely would never have initiated or supported. On another note, do not assume that cranely will be successful. His political network is far from uncontested in Cincinnati.
@Joe ” As an aside, I find it amusing that people on here citing Cincinnati’s problems with schools and crime trumpet Chicago whose sociological ills pale in comparison to what Cincinnati faces.”
The thing is Chicago has is quite literally two cities, one of which is quite successful and actually safer than many suburbs (as Aaron pointed out on this blog). Cincinnati’s problem is it is ONE city and a very fragile one at that – putting a halt to the progress made will kill hope for the city’s future.
When I’m back in town to visit family and I see those signs that say Building Cincinnati’s future I think I’ll again reply in my mind like I did when I was in college down there What future?
In spite of Chicago’s problems it does have a future, it just needs to make the changes necessary to get it out of its hole which are going to be difficult but not impossible. Cincinnati is literally throwing itself down into a dark hole.
@Aaron Renn– I challenge you and your readers to look at a recent mass transit project that actually works, and that is the Cleveland Health lIne super bus route where a couple of Billion dollars (that is with a B and not an M)of spin off investment has taken place all at a fraction of the cost of these trolley boondoggles. I have been in the infrastructure business for over 20 years, and nationally I have seen nothing like its success, and if Cleveland can pull it off, certainly Cincy and other cities can. And you know what? Ridership has exceeded expectations unlike these pie in the sky expensive faux tourist wannabe scenarios like trolleys (see: Why Atlanta is skeptical on its new trolley system on today’s NPR).
Cincinnati is not just another Cleveland, Buffalo, or even St. Louis. Its job and population numbers over the last decade are far better than any of these. Let’s keep this in perspective.
@MathewHall: You’re right. Cincy is just another Toledo or Indianapolis wannabe like the reporter says above. I think if you don’t know what your talking about I suggest you remain quiet or else keep looking foolsih like your other posts.
“Cincinnati is not just another Cleveland, Buffalo, or even St. Louis. Its job and population numbers over the last decade are far better than any of these. Let’s keep this in perspective.”
Matt is right, however the difference is a maddening lack of interest in its own urban core in spite of the fact that its one of the best urban core’s in the Midwest. Its the only bit city in a region with a solid economy that is shooting itself. You gotta be kidding yourself, Michael, travel to those places they don’t have neighborhoods like OTR, oh I forgot you probably are a Cincinnatian who’s idea of a vacation is going to Myrtle Beach or Gatlinburg and not anywhere urban!
Matt reminds me critically just how F-ing blind Cincinnatians are to their own assets! OPEN YOUR EYES!
Michael, that’s not what the table from the BLS say. http://www.bls.gov/eag/. Cincinnati does have more to work with than many other similarly sized metros. Everything counts, both good and bad.
Sorry Neil, I reside in Manhattan and just happen to know a little bit about transportation infrastructure nationally as that is my business. I’ll let your ignorance slide however. Maybe you can enlighten us all on your infrastructure expertise. I’m all ears.
Michael, basically OTR looks like Hoboken, NJ if it went through the war – in its heyday it had a population density like Hoboken of 50,000 people/mi sq.
Sorry to accuse you of being a Cincinnatian, and I’ll excuse your geographic ignorance due to NYC myopia. Remember Cincy isn’t the mistake on the lake 😉
Btw, sorry Matt, I was referring to Micheal.
Look I look at at cities and projects objectively, and to demean other cities is amateurish at best and rubish at worst. I have been to Cleveland, Cincy, Pittsburgh, etc, and there not all that much differentfrom each other–all have good and bad points. If you want to be taken seriously don’t throw amateurish opinions in the mix (i.e. mistake on the lake)as one could easily counter that Cincy is nothing but a hillbilly heaven with dimwits from Kentucky and W. Virginny.
Thank you for pointing out that the streetcar has been overblown. I voted for the pro-streetcar candidates, but OTR can still be Brooklyn without it.
This City is The People.
Sorry, I’ve been getting a tad hotheaded. Not many people in the Cincy area see the potential of that city and it really irks me when someone challenges that claim (its a massive inferiority complex). The urban bones are some of the most underutilized in the nation.
I still think its different than Indianapolis, your doing the city a great disservice. St. Louis and to a lesser degree Pittsburgh is the only thing that comes close to a comparable city. Both of which don’t have remaining neighborhoods that are of the density and building stock of OTR.
It’s the classic nay-sayer argument: “I’m going to insist that your plan won’t work, regardless of the facts you provide demonstrating that it could work, and I’m going to insist on stopping it before it actually works and proves me wrong.”
Nothing works that isn’t ever tried. Light rail trolley service works in cities large & small all over the world. Why are we uniquely incapable of making it work here? What facts do the nay-sayers have to support the contention that even though it works elsewhere, it can’t work here?